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  • ESPN had an article on Garret coming back. Some interesting parts.

    Although Garrett will stay, there will be some changes to the Giants' offensive staff, among them the possibility of internal alterations when it comes to the responsibilities of those currently on staff. Increased responsibility for quarterbacks coach Jerry Schuplinski, wide receivers coach Tyke Tolbert and tight ends coach Freddie Kitchens is possible.

    Sources also told ESPN that Judge was very hands-on with the offense (much as he was with the offensive line) and that it seemed to create a noticeable "tension" with Garrett. That could have been because of the results.


    Judge also didn't seem thrilled with the effectiveness of the offensive system. He was hardly effusive with praise for Garrett when asked what he wanted to see from the offense next season. In fact, he didn't even mention Garrett's name.

    "Well, I'm always going to look for our offense to evolve with the players we have in it. To me, the priority is getting good players in here, which I think we have, and then put them in positions where they can make plays," he said.


    • I think Jones is probably the only reason Garrett is back and if it's true that other coaches, like Kitchens, will have increased responsibility any change within the team might not be that drastic to Jones development.

      What I will say is if Garrett's on the way out or in conflict with Judge about how he's involved with the offense then I wouldn't bring him back even if it negatively effects Jones in 2021. A change before camp would be better than one in season.


      • Yeah, Garrett seems more reserved/passive to cause conflict. Maybe the issue is that he's too passive?

        I don't think Jones is tied to Garrett or Gettleman at this point. I think the team can move on from both and Jones can still be around. I see Judge being the final decider on Jones fate even after another losing season.

        I do agree that stability is needed for Jones. My only issue with that is I really did not like the offense Garrett ran last year and I'm trying to weigh that vs. stability for Jones and I keep leaning towards not liking the offense. Nothing I Can do about that since he's coming back so hopefully the stability makes the difference.

        I don't like to put a specific number on the wins given you never know about injuries but I look at it as they need to contend for the playoffs in a typical year so around 8 wins is probably the number.



          The #Giants are hiring UL Ragin' Cajuns offensive coordinator/offensive line coach Rob Sale as their new OL coach, source said. A key position.

          Coincidence with all the negative talk with Garrett? NFL is becoming closer to the college game so it seems to be a nice add given he can offer some insight into the offense.

          Sale has spent the past two seasons with the Louisiana football program. In his second and most recent season, Sale led the Ragin’ Cajuns offense to multiple record-breaking performances, including total offense (6,918), total touchdowns (69), most rushing yards (3,604), most rushing touchdowns (42) and most passing touchdowns (27).


          • Ranaan is tweeting that Kitchens is being promoted to Senior Offensive assistant. If there was any doubt who'd take over if/when Garret is gone this pretty much cements it that it will be Kitchens.


            • Good take on Pitts:

              Zero confidence Garrett would know what to do with him.
              My EntireTeam Sucks...


              • More I'm reading the less likely Pitt's will be there at 11.

                The other side of that is that TE's usually do not go top 15 and the ones that have gone that early have not been the world beaters as expected when taken. In the last 20 years the TE's who went top 15 have been - Hockenson (8th), Ebron (10th), Vernon Davis (6th), Winslow (6th), Shockey (14th), Bubba Franks (14th). That kind of goes against my desire to take him at 11.

                I said it earlier that I'm not really worried at all about how Garret will use him. Judge has already shown that he's involved in how the offense will run and with Kitchens promoted Garrett won't be the only voice in the room. I'd fully expect either Garrett would use the players correctly or there would be another person (Kitchens) calling plays.
                Last edited by dak11; 02-18-2021, 09:07 AM.


                • As expected, Wentz dealt to Colts. 3rd this year and a 2nd next (which could potentially increase to a 1st). Terrible value except when you take into account that Wentz was guaranteed $40 mil the next 2 seasons.

                  I think he'll be really good in Indy and Philly will regret giving him up.


                  • Yeah, not sure how I'd classify really good but playing behind that solid OL is going to make it a lot easier for him and he won't have to run for his life. I think he'll be closer to the 2019 player than the 2020 going forward.

                    There are going to be a ton of veteran player cuts this year. With the cap dropping there are a lot of teams who need to clear space and some teams need to clear boatloads of space. Once the Giants move on from the usual suspects they'll have the ability to maneuver in FA but the top guys might not be a reasonable expectation.

                    I'm starting to think that both the top WR's and LW might be off the table given the cap and LW's expected ask to be in the $20 mil per year area. They could be thinking more of doing a 2 for the price of 1 type offseason where they go for a 2nd tier WR like Marvin Jones, who's not a true #1 but a veteran WR who can be a deep threat, good around the red zone (9 TD's 3 out of last 4 years), and a bigger bodied guy at 6'2'' who'd be more reasonably priced to be a piece to the puzzle in the passing game. Then replace LW pass rushing with someone like a Floyd/Reddick/Lawson type of OLB pass rusher or resign Tomlinson (I think as a NT he'll be over priced at $10 mil per year but he did buy into the Judge way) and manufacture the pass rush via the draft or scheme. Both of those moves could cost only slightly more than what LW is asking for.

                    One interesting/questionable signing was Jonnothan Harrison who they just inked to a $2 mil futures contract last week. Looks like an overpay for a backup C/G but some online speculated that this could open up Gates moving to G if they move on from Zeitler. This move pretty much guarantees Pulley is a goner but personally I wouldn't move Gates since he came on strong towards the end of the year and I'd prefer to see if he can build off it.
                    Last edited by dak11; 02-25-2021, 05:57 PM.


                    • Giants just need talent period at WR whether that's a big bodied target or a smaller dude. O'dell Beckham 5'11" enough said. Giants are going to have ALOT of inside info on Waddle and Smith. Waddle has the game breaking speed, but yeah not ideal height at 5'10" same height as Tyreek Hill BTW doesn't hurt him. Knock on Smith is although he's 6'1" he's small in stature. Getting into a NFL weight room could help that. Still he catches EVERYTHING runs great routes and even has some special teams chops on his resume. Can't pigeon hole guys because they don't fit the perfect mold. Giants fans been crying about a big bodied receiver since Plaxico. Those guys don't grow on trees hence the rumored franchise tag for most if not all the upcoming FA's.
                      My EntireTeam Sucks...


                      • I have 2 main issues with Waddle.

                        1. I'm not convinced he can play outside. At Alabama he was always the 3rd WR/slot type of guy and never progressed higher than that. Seems more like a gadget-slot guy at the NFL level and not the true #1 WR this team needs.
                        2. I don't see his speed working very well given the other talent at WR. The thing that Make Tyreke Hill so good is he has a Kelce keeping safeties honest and drawing double teams. Giants do not have anyone like that.

                        I have the same reservations on Smith as you stated. Outside the size issues and I agree I don't know how NFL weight rooms are going to add the bulk (and not slow him down) that a weight room like Alabama wasn't able to. It's not like he's coming from a D2 school. Alabama is the premier football school at the college level and their facilities are NFL quality. I'm still not a fan of him at 11 given the other options but I'm more open to him after a trade down into the late teens or later (he won't be there).

                        Moore isn't even on my radar. He seems like a KC pick all the way. Speed freak who can be that 3rd/4th/5th option in the passing game who can be that part time player who'll have his 40-50 catches along with a few big plays over the season similar to Hardman.

                        The receivers I'm looking at for pick 11 would be Chase and Pitts and neither are going to be there from what I've been reading. After that it's primarily D with an outside chance of OL. Preferably there's a team in the mid to late teen that want to move up for the remaining QB's and the Giants can add 1-2 Day 2 picks.
                        Last edited by dak11; Today, 03:30 PM.


                        • Still worried that the double coverage in college is a lot different then the double coverage in the NFL and if he was dealing with any of the top CB's when he also had Smith on the field. Maybe he'll be a stud. I just have concerns about him where I'd be very hesitant to use that #11 pick on him.

                          Giants starting to clear cap. Obvious releases in Tate and Mayo. Also heard/read they are trying to negotiate a lower number for Solder since he's talking about playing.


                          • Not saying I want Solder back but they could be thinking about him play RT and letting Peart play LG next year as reports are going around now that they're seeing if anyone will trade for Zeitler, unlikely knowing that he's probably a release candidate at this point given his salary.


                            • Not arguing Peart vs Solder. Just some things I started seeing pop up recently given Peart did play 12 games at G in 2018.

                              No one's giving up anything for Zeitler. Big salary and teams know the Giants will probably just release him.

                              Issue with the line is that they are young and none, other than Gates, has shown a full season of good play. Thomas looked to turn the corner the 2nd half of the year so even if you give him the benefit of the doubt you're still looking at 2 G's (Hernandez and Lemieux) who have both has issues in the NFL. I don't take their grade as gospel but PFF grades 'Lemmy' one of the worse G's in all of football last year. I'm also not sure you can go into next season, with a premium on finding out how good Jones can be, with 3 question marks on the OL. Granted, if you plan to add some veterans to compete or take spots then I'd have to see what veterans they bring in to make me feel OK with it.

                              I agree that there will be good players available for cheap based on the cap going down and cuts. With the overall lack of good OL all over the NFL I'd be curious how many good ones will be in the area the Giants will need to shop in when everything is said and done.


                              • I'm on the hope Pitts falls and if he doesn't then go OL. Seems like Slater would be the better all around pick there. Could be the answer at RT or RG.. Wouldn't be mad with Waddle, but maybe they could get Bateman/Moore in the 2nd.
                                Last edited by OrangeNblueNmyVeins; 03-08-2021, 08:09 AM.
                                My EntireTeam Sucks...