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  • Exactly....probably can't even keep DT either...luckily(?) this draft is weak on interior D-linemen so I don't think we have to worry about Getty looking at one in the first 2 rounds, but wouldn't be surprised to see one snagged in R3.

    Trading back in the first round makes even more sense this year than most - paying ~4 mil cap hit for a rookie @ 11 is not going to help. Slide back to 15 ish and that number drops to like 2.5 mil...tho in most early mocks Parsons, Pitts, or Surtain are on the board at 11 would be hard to pass on any of them

    Just sucks to be here...Solder opting out screwed us on so many levels...
    Last edited by MrHat; 01-24-2021, 10:04 AM.


    • It's still way early in the process but my thinking has started to turn to the fact that this offense was so bad last year and defense doesn't really win championships anymore given all the changes made to how defenses can play. Go heavy on offense in the draft and FA and hope Graham can scheme a defense good enough to start winning.

      I currently love the idea of signing a Robinson/Galloday and teaming him with Pitts from the draft in an effort to open things up for the other guys and Barkley. But, I wouldn't be against a trade down considering there's a lot of QB needy teams who might want to jump up for the remaining 1-2 guys after Lawrence/Fields/Wilson go off the board. Drop into that 15-22 area and Pitts is a long shot to be there but that's an area being more comfortable with Rouseau or adding another OL guy, especially if Zeitler is released. There's are a few highly rated guys who have G/OT ability who can fill the need at G but also offer an option/competition for Peart at RT.


      • I'd be interested in Slater there - tackle in college, but most think guard in the NFL - either way the versatility helps - could be RT if Peart isn't ready or can replace Zeitler...but can you really invest ANOTHER draft pick in this O-Line given all the other needs and the relative play of the line down the stretch? I guess it depends on the return for slide back...if you get an extra 3rd rounder I think I'd do it because I do really believe there's some good big WRs available in that area. - Marshall from LSU. I still really like Nico Collins and Grimes as well. If you want a TE to pair with Engram maybe go with Brevin Jordan - explosive, solid blocker, improved every year in college. Should easily make it to the 2nd round as he's generally positioned behind at least Pitts and the Penn St kid.

        I'm still on the sign a WR, draft a TE/WR in the ~2nd/3rd. I think that adds plenty to the offense

        I still think if you're potentially losing your best Run stuffer and your best pass rusher on D I'd seriously look to add a CB that you can put on an island like Bradberry and allow you to use some of your stack of safeties and pass rushing LBers (Carter/Xman) to be aggressive on the blitz. Also adds a play maker to the D for turnovers and such


        • OL isn't my preference but it's still a pretty big issue, especially if Zeitler is released to save his money, which can probably wait until the 2nd/3rd if you're only thinking G instead of OT and I'm not considering it with the 11th pick. That option only comes into play for me if they trade back into the later part of round 1. Jones play, and turnovers, were a lot better when the OL started to jell. This team can't go into next season thinking adding Peart, Lemieux, and Hernandez to Gates and Thomas is the answer to having a top 15 OL. That's 3 pretty big question marks and that's with the assumption that Thomas' issues earlier in the season were growing pains and his injury. They need to add at least 1 OL in either the draft or FA to give Jones the best shot t being productive next year.

          Corner is further down the list for me. They put so much resources into that position the last few seasons that they can't keep going back to the well. I have to hope that with Beal, Love, Holmes, any mid/late draft picks along with the 3 safeties can be good enough in the secondary. I'm not sure any of the draft CB's are guys you can put on an island.

          Honestly don't know enough about those mid draft WR's to recommend any of them. I do know there's a few TE's that the draft guys are pretty high on that if they don't go with a Pitts in the first there's more traditional TE's that will be available in the middle rounds. I'm not drafting a TE with the idea I'm teaming him with Engram for anything other than 2021. I think Engram either gets dealt, most likely, or they let him walk after the season given the production/drops/INTs that he had this season. Adding a TE is more about his replacement.

          A lot of the draft talk will depend on who the big FA's are.


          • Does Beal even make it out of camp? I think he's in judge's dog house from go just after his comments about dedication and sacrifice.

            Holmes is clearly a slot guy and Love they like to slide around. I wouldn't be opposed to busy using Love as CB2 they just seem to have 0 interest in doing so.

            Surtain she Caleb were left on islands all the time. I think both can be lock down guys in the NFL. I know there's some concerns on Surtains speed but he's so good at the jam, so good with his hands, and knocking guys off their route I think he'll be fine.


            • I just put Beal on the list as an option. He's a long shot given his lack of playing time since being drafted but still could be part of the equation. My main point was that they rotated multiple guys there last year and the D was good enough to win. I'm not sure adding a early pick corner is going to transform the D into a top rated unit.

              I do question Surtains long speed from what I read to be that island guy. We'll see where his speed is at during his pro day. I think Caleb is a better athlete but him opting out of 2020 makes him a risky pick at 11. I'm starting to see some think Horn could be better than both of those guys when everything is done.


              • I like Horn as well...I think all 3 are starting CB1s in this league and then I think there's a massive drop off after that - which given the amount of passing makes them all worthy top 15 picks. Speed it all depends...I mean when he was last timed he ran like a 4.55 40 which matches up to another similar sized CB - Richard Sherman. I think Bradberry was around a 4.50 too. As long as he's not 4.60+ I think he'll be okay. When you're 6'2+ ~200 pounds with long arms and a great understanding at the point of catch, I think you can be a 1/2 step slower than other CBs and still be elite. I'll be more interested in the 3 cone and his 20 yard times

                While yes the Giants stitched together Cb2 this year I thought Graham came out and said he ran a ton more zone than he would have liked to....I think that was 100% because of the CB2 situation. If I'm wrong on that and he's going to continue to utilize zone regardless of the CB situation then you are 100% need to go for a CB. Again tho I go back to that NE thinking where they kind of build a defense scheme out of having some really strong coverage guys + CB represents pretty good positional value in that 10-20 range.

                I don't see elite guys on the D-Line in R1. LB I think only Parsons is a top 20 (and he's probably top 10) pick. WR there's a ton, but there's so many I think you can go to R2 or 3 and still get exceptional players and that's where if it came down to say Surtain vs. Pitts at 11 I'd personally go CB. I wouldn't be mad either way just thinking that there's WRs I like in rounds 2-4. There's no CBs I like outside of the top ...maybe 4. I'd also agree that WR is a higher NEED than CB, just see a lot more angles to address that.

                To me the Giants have 4 big areas they need to improve / maintain - WR #1, D-Line/Pass rush #2, O-line #3 (assuming BOTh Zeitler and Solder are gone - if only 1 I drop this down to #4), CB2 #4.


                • Devonta Smith declines to have high height or weight measured at Senior Bowl. Gives the impressions he could be shorter and weigh less than his Alabama reported 6'1'' 175 pound profile.



                  • Yeah I really think he's a college wonder....not that he'll be a bust, but I think those expecting him to be some top tier WR are going to be let down. I wouldn't touch him in the top 20


                    • I don't want him at 11, that's for sure. If they dropped back around 20 I wouldn't kill them for taking him but I agree with you that I don't think he'll be that dominant #1 type WR in the NFL. I've said for a while I think he'll be more like a Keenan Allen type of WR.


                      • I'm also not a fan of Waddle who seems to be mocked to the Giants a ton. Yes he's a potential game breaker, but again I wonder given the depth of talent and his size is he going to be the target Jones NEEDS in the NFL.

                        Like I've said I think the 2 guys from LSU are BOTH better than the 'Bama guys in the NFL and Marshall seems to be a guy who folks are saying will be around in the 2nd. Chase should probably be the first off the board.

                        And this is my hangup a bit with Pitts - to me, he's the 2nd best pass catcher in this draft. I'd put Chase first, then him. BUT how much of his skills/ability are tied to him being a TE? If you judge him as purely a WR can he run a full route tree? can he matchup with those coverage corners? I wont argue that he can be a beast of a TE and already is probably a more engaged blocker than EE and definitely better red zone target, but are two TE sets what Jones/Garrett need for the offense? I'm still really on the fence on how I value him for the Giants.


                        • Agreed on Waddle. He's not the type of player this team needs. Everyone talks about how he's like Tyreke but not many fast sub 6 foot WR's make it in the NFL. I could see him being the last piece to an offense but not someone to be the #1 option. I'm also not sure Tyreke would be the player he is without Kelce tying up the safety a lot of the time.

                          Here's the thing with Pitts for me. I see him as a slot receiver who could be a situational outside guy. He needs to be used similar to Waller/Kelce where they are going against safeties/slot guys/LB's. My ideal setup, not sure if Judge/Gettleman would see it the same way, is adding a big #1 WR like Robinson/Golloday. My goal would be spread the offense out which could open things up for Barkley and give Jones more options. If they played Robinson/Golloday and Slayton on the outside and Pitts/EE/Shepard (I'd expect EE to be dealt if they go Pitts) in the slot it would be tough for defenses to play base sets. If they go to nickle or dime then it gives smaller players for both Pitts and/or EE to block on any runs. If the D plays base you move them to the slot and make LB's and safeties cover them. For me, Pitts is the type of guy that would provide Judge with a way to be multiple in the run/pass game depending on how the D is playing.

                          A lot of the potential on what Pitts can bring to an offense also depends on having that big WR who's an outside threat. That situation along with Shepard and Slayton would create a lot of mismatches that can be exploited. What I don't see is Pitts coming in and being that dominant #1 WR on the outside. He could be but I see him more about being that middle of the field mismatch that EE never became and only part time blocker.


                          • Yep I have the same feeling on Pitts potential and usage Dak - it's that NEED to get another #1 WR to really make best use of him that gives me mixed feelings about him at 11. Toss in that I'm not sure Garrett (or Jones for that matter) are really the right folks to take advantage of that style of TE.


                            • Off topic about the Giants but rumors saying Lions traded Stafford to Rams for 2 first rounders, a 3rd rounder, and Goff. If true, that's a really good trade for the Lions.

                              As to Pitts, I don't think he NEEDS a #1 WR to be productive though I do think he'll need a good WR to team up with to reach his full potential. He someone who can pull double teams to open up a WR or have a WR pull double teams to open up 1-on-1 opportunities for him. I'm not sure Slayton or Shepard are good enough to be the type of threat who'd make teams decide on how to cover 1-on-1 without help. I also think adding a good WR either in FA (Ideally Robinson/Holloday or even Godwin) or in the draft would open up Slayton to produce more like his rookie year going against single coverage vs #2/3 type CB's. It really comes down to Pitts being tough to defend out of the slot if teams can't double team him and adding a WR who can make teams pay if they do.

                              I'm not worried about Garrett figuring how to use him. The way Judge seems to be so far is that he'll be involved with building the offense and if Garrett can't use the players the Judge wants to I'd see him making a change to Kitchens.

                              Things can change as the draft comes closer but he's the offensive guy I'm on board with at 11 as long as Chase doesn't fall.


                              • Agreed...great trade for the Lions...If the Rams dont win it all next year they are picks for the next 3 years and ton of old/expensive folks.

                                Fair enough on I said he's the 2nd best pass catcher in the draft to me and the best red zone guy...there's just a handful of reservations I have.