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  • MrHat
    replied
    This team has been getting worse each week. I get that they are young but shouldn't there be signs of growth?

    Baker is horrible. There is still at least 3 total miscommunication / wide open receiver plays on third and long every week. Now toss in a return to 0 pass rush.

    offensively nothing has changed. Play calling or blocking wise.

    Glad JJ called out Betcher. These coaches need to be gone next year

    Leave a comment:


  • dak11
    replied
    Rookie QBs turn the ball over. Look at peyton’s rookie season with 28 INTs. Unless that team has a good online they’ll be rushed and make mistakes.

    Honestly he has a lot of turnovers but only 8 INTs. I think controlling fumbles are easier to teach and correct. Fumbles will also improve if the online gets better.

    Cant see this staff surviving if they lose to Wash and/or Miami. Both of those teams seem to be improving while the Giants are getting worse. Down by 2+ scores and they doing a TE screen? Decent play but a TE and outcome but they need quick scores at that point of the game.

    Only real positive is they’re now 2 games ahead for the #2 pick and also have the tie breaker (worse win% against) against Cincy if they can somehow pull off another win.

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  • OrangeNblueNmyVeins
    replied
    Ooooof at least Miami and Washington won and then the Jets just had to outdo the Giants and lose in Cinci Hahahahahaha

    Legit chance at the #1 pick with 4 games to go including two games with Miami/Wash.

    God they need to clean house with this coaching staff. I cringe at the thought of Bettcher coaching Chase Young.

    Starting to have legit concerns about Jones. I mean you can only chalk up so many things to ROOKIE mistakes, but damn this kid is a turnover machine.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrHat
    replied
    Originally posted by OrangeNblueNmyVeins View Post
    Ben McAdoo was 13-15 as HC. Ray Handley was 14-18. Shurmur is 7-19 heading towards 7-24
    Not only that, but toss in his career record and the fact that the team is devolving.... I'm no McAdoo fan, but at least the dude had an 11 win season and a playoff shot. Even Ray Handley had a .500 year. Now Shurmur didn't walk into a situation with as much talent on the roster as either of those teams, but to go from 5 wins DOWN to 2-3....man....can't even really blame it on the rookie QB because without him do they even have 2 wins? I've been an Eli supporter and certainly he wouldn't be the fumble machine Jones has been, but not sure I saw any games where I thought "Man Eli would have this one in the bag"


    The difficult thing here is in both those previous situations there was pretty much open rebellion against the HC. We havent seen that here, but I believe its more due to an age factor / player leadership factor - the guys who would have been at the head of the rebellion this year were all shipped out (Harrison, OBJ, OV, LC) creating a 1 year grace or rookies who don't know any better. So you're not going to see anything from a player driven side happening. The other thing I worry about is there was a lot of bad blood from TC when he was shipped out and then Reese got to spend 200 mil on the defense to generate that 11 win season....so I hope ownership doesn't ponder a similar scenario with Shurmur - wanting to spend the money and then see what he can do before axing him. Hopefully they see its 2 totally different scenarios here - 1 with a 2x SB winning coach, who had a winning pedigree BEFORE he was even the coach here vs. a guy who has done nothing but lose as a leader.

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  • dak11
    replied
    Those rooting for the Giants to lose got good news.

    Peppers has a transverse process fracture and will miss time and possibly the rest of the season.

    Tate is in concussion protocol.

    Leave a comment:


  • OrangeNblueNmyVeins
    replied
    Ben McAdoo was 13-15 as HC. Ray Handley was 14-18. Shurmur is 7-19 heading towards 7-24

    Leave a comment:


  • dak11
    replied
    Originally posted by MrHat View Post
    More than the draft pick I'm rooting for it so shurmur is gone at this point. No way he survives a 2 win season
    Agreed, especially since one of those wins was against the bucs who missed a game winning chip shot FG.

    Giants owners aren’t ones to make quick firings but Shurmur isn’t working. I just hope the rumor that they might try to get Garrett isn’t legit if they move on from Shurmur is a joke.

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  • MrHat
    replied
    More than the draft pick I'm rooting for it so shurmur is gone at this point. No way he survives a 2 win season

    Leave a comment:


  • dak11
    replied
    Giants move up to #2 spot in the draft.

    Miami is no longer a gimme game as they seem to be playing a lot better now than early in the season.

    Could be playing for the #2 spot in the draft come the Washington game.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrHat
    replied
    Scherff has been banged up a lot recently - played 14 games 2 years ago. only 8 games last year. Missed 2 so far this year. He'll end up getting more than Zach Martin or Norwell because that's how the market always works - so Martins' was 14 mil per and 40 mil locked in...you gotta figure he's targeting 15/45-50.....At that, Washington might just franchise him for 15. Only a couple of mil more, but a lot of guaranteed cash on the table.

    I agree Zietler hasn't been as advertised, but for weeks early he had this shoulder injury where the guy couldnt even raise his arm over his head. Its supposedly better now, but I'm sure there's still probably an issue there....I'm assuming that has a lot to do with his mediocre play early....this last week against the Jets he had good PFF scores at least. We'll see what the rest of brings, but I still buying that when healthy he's one of the top 5-6 guards in the league so 12 mil falls in line.

    I agree on Solder, but I still kinda think he should he's been that bad. Draft an OT (or 2) and sign a RT...probably doesn't happen, but compared to where I was going into the season to where I am on him now I wouldn't be opposed.

    I'm assuming the Giants end the year with more than 2 wins - if so there's no way Young is on the board. He's a top 3 pick lock he's the only guy in there with the 2 QBs IMO. Giants are BAD, but don't think they finish that bad...but I guess if they end up losing to the Dolphins or Redskins anything is possible. I have kind of always figured it was Cincy, Miami, Redskins are your top 3....although I'm already stunned Miami has 2 wins...I thought they were a 1-15 lock. Then the Giants "battling" Atlanta, and the Jets for 4-6. I mean if the Giants can't get to at least 4 wins this year then thats extra pathetic....the reward in that case would probably be Young. Its a deep OT draft tho - grab one in round 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • dak11
    replied
    Ogletree is an easy release.

    I don't see Jenkins coming back unless he cuts his salary by 30-40%, which i wouldn't expect him to do. He hasn't played well and would be a 6.5 mil savings. Add in all the young CB options and I think they take their chances with the current options and/or FA. It's possible Beal, Ballentine, and Baker all struggle and their thinking chances but I'm expecting him waived.

    I don't think they'll cut Zietler but if they did there would be zero cap hit as that was all accelerated when he was dealt. It would just be his $12 mil salary which seems high based on his play. Rumors going around that Washington offered Scherff, who's a lot better overall from what I've seen, a deal averaging around $13 mil which is the top of the guard market. If he becomes a FA you can upgrade guard for a couple mil per year more. Maybe he's injured like you say but I haven't seen guard play that's worth $12 mil. Another thing to consider is that I like how Gates plays who'll play at a minimum salary. Gates is essentially a guard as I don't think he can play tackle long term.

    I don't think Solder goes. Giants need 2 tackles and it's hard enough to get 1 in FA. As bad as he's been you have to bite the bullet and role him out there next year. If they get one of the top OT you can always bounce him to RT if needed.

    Agreed on Ellison and Martin.

    I'd be curious if we hear Engram rumors this off season. He's another Reese guy, can't stay healthy, and Barkley could be more effective with a traditional TE. I'd wonder if TB would swap Engram and Howard. Arians gets a hybrid TE/WR and Giants get a blocking TE who's a threat in the pass game.

    Agreed on the draft. There's a lot that can shift in the next 6 weeks, especially since there's at least 2 winnable games vs Washington and Miami still to come. OT/C are the main positions of need in the draft but if Young is available you cannot pass him up. He's that good of a defensive player. You add him, go back to a 4-3, and team him with Williams/Lawrence/Tomlinson, and Golden and that D line starts becoming a huge strength which will help the overall D.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrHat
    replied
    Originally posted by dak11 View Post
    No reason not to let him finish the year out before canning him. Who are you replacing him with in season, Bettcher? Thing with Shurmur that's starting to get on my nerves, outside of the play calling, is his responses to the media. He comes off as losing is no big deal and they'll try harder. The players might like him but that's not the way to be a leader. A leader is holding players accountable and not waiting 10 weeks before you decide to start making line-up changes.

    Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Drafts have been good overall (some questionable picks but we're not the professionals) and he's done some good trades prior to the Williams one. If they sign him prior to FA it makes it a little better but it was still foolish to give up draft capital in a lost season. The team will also have a ton of money available. I don't expect him to pull a Reece and go crazy in FA but he will have around 63 mil available (prior to potentially cutting guys like Jenkins, Ogletree, Solder, Zeitler?) to spend without the cap increasing any along with a top 5 draft pick.
    Yeah I get it, in football more than any sport cutting a coach mid-year is a waste, but just the general sentiment that this guy needs to go. Point is I don't think anyone needs to see year of him at the helm. He's been using that "we gotta correct mistakes" line to the media for the better part of 2 years now. Well isn't that kinda on you coach?

    Ogletree is easily gone. Jenkins...I tend to think so as well, but Baker has been a disaster so they better have a plan B to get another corner in here. Wouldn't be shocked to see Jenkins back to be honest - probably not at his current cap hit, but I could see some kind of restructuring done. He'd be "worth" about 10 mil if they could get it to that unless Beal or Ballentine show out over the last 1/2. Zeitler has been playing hurt again I don't think you cut him at this point - tho it does save a pretty good cap hit. I just think he's someone you can plug in and forget about next year rather than having to hunt for another G. Solder I give up with that dude. I went into this season figuring he'd get this year and definitely next year then wait to 2021 to take a 6.5 mil cap hit. However he's been so bad it might be worth taking the 13 mil and save ~6 mil.They are likely going to be able to get one of the top 2 tackles coming out. Some smaller moves like - Rhett Ellison is probably gone as well only a 2 mil dead cap hit vs. 7+ for keeping him. Kareem Martin 1 mil dead vs. 6 mil cap hit seem like no brainers

    In the way too early draft talk - I'd be looking to load up on the O-lIne in the draft and address defense mostly in FA. They have a ton of youth there, time to get the right vets to fill in the needs.

    Leave a comment:


  • OrangeNblueNmyVeins
    replied
    My god if we can't get Young then inject this dude into my blood stream. He's a freaking giant: Andrew Thomas OT #71 he's the dude 2 feet taller than everyone else on the field

    Leave a comment:


  • dak11
    replied
    No reason not to let him finish the year out before canning him. Who are you replacing him with in season, Bettcher? Thing with Shurmur that's starting to get on my nerves, outside of the play calling, is his responses to the media. He comes off as losing is no big deal and they'll try harder. The players might like him but that's not the way to be a leader. A leader is holding players accountable and not waiting 10 weeks before you decide to start making line-up changes.

    Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Drafts have been good overall (some questionable picks but we're not the professionals) and he's done some good trades prior to the Williams one. If they sign him prior to FA it makes it a little better but it was still foolish to give up draft capital in a lost season. The team will also have a ton of money available. I don't expect him to pull a Reece and go crazy in FA but he will have around 63 mil available (prior to potentially cutting guys like Jenkins, Ogletree, Solder, Zeitler?) to spend without the cap increasing any along with a top 5 draft pick.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrHat
    replied
    Originally posted by Jersey Shore View Post
    Shurmur needs to be gone by noon tomorrow
    Agreed....

    Tho I'll also mention this...Barkley is escaping a lot of blame around town...he's been awful since his injury. Yeah he's likely playing hurt. Yeah this O-Line still sucks..BUT no excuse for his terrible blitz pickup (this is where they miss Eli directing traffic on blocking)....and if he's that hurt then get him off the field in a wasted year.

    I'll also say - f Shurmur for not having some more creative ways to get him the ball in space when the running game is bottled up.

    Re: Shurmur I'd rather fire him this year than wait ANOTHER year to confirm what we already know.....I know people are worried about Jones development but as a rookie you gotta figure they are keeping things fairly simple for his this year anyways so picking up a "new" system next year to me shouldn't be a major hold up....it would be worse for him to be locked into this system for 2 whole years and then switch it out.

    Gettleman - I'm fine riding him for 3 more years to see what happens with these draft picks. So have him pick his next coach and let those 2 be tied together. He's had pretty good drafts. He now does kinda look like a genius for trading OBJ and letting Collins walk. I too think the Williams deal was stupid...I still dont like the Lawrence pick and the moves needed to get Baker, but overall I think he's started to put talent on this team - he needs the coaches to develop it and its honestly going to take another 2-3 years to see what these guys become. He annoys you 1 second with seemingly boneheaded moves...but then he seems to make up for it with a couple of real good ones (Peppers has been awesome and Slayton is turning into a steal...let alone seemingly getting the right QB). So I'm fine going ride or die for the next coaching term with Dave

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