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  • MrHat
    started a topic Giants Offseason

    Giants Offseason

    Might as well start another "mega thread" for tossing all the offseason/draft rumors and such....

    The whole Eli thing will be answered by March 17th - he's due a roster bonus of 5 mil. If they are going to completely cut ties it'll be before then.....if they pay it, he'll be the QB to start 2019. I don't think Eli will take a paycut....the only remaining question will be if they Giants extend him to lower the cap hit.

    Vernon will be the other big roster decision I think. Dude just can't stay healthy, but at the same time he's the only pass rusher they have. He'd be 8 mil in dead cap or 19.5 against it. If they give him 1 more year he'd be 4 mil in dead cap. I'd be stunned if they kept BOTH Vernon and Eli....I think 1 probably ends up determining the other. My guess? Vernon is gone - this draft has a ton of pass rushers and the FA market actually has some solid talent there too.

    Ogletree is another potential out with 5 mil in deadcap vs. 11.5 in salary, but I think he stays. Jenkins is 14 mil vs. 7 mil not enough savings for what he brings to the field for me, but I guess there's always potential there...I know plenty of folks think he's ripe for it.



    Needs (forgetting QB for the moment):

    Pass rush / OLB
    Free Saftey
    RT
    G
    C

    I know folks will point to CB as well, but I'm okay with Jenkins, Haley (slot/nickle), and giving Beal the shot.

    If they aren't going with a tackle @ #6 then I'd skip it this draft and try to find the answer in FA. I think Taylor and Williams are the only starting tackles in this draft. I'm not a fan of Little. Both those guys would be well served starting on the right side too.

    If Allen is there @6 you take him. However I think there's a number of good pass rush LBers/DE types that will still be around in round 2...so if they go QB or OT its still a spot that can be addressed with the depth of this draft.

    A key for the Giants will be to figure out how to best leverage their horde of late round picks. Find some potential cap hits on other teams and leverage 5-7 type picks for them....you can probably fill G/C with moves like that for guys who are making a little much to be backups on teams moving in different directions. Think reverse Brett Jones this time around. I think most of the OL talent in this draft is just not as exciting as last year. So they might have to do a lot of work on the market.....

    Safety is another area in this draft that only has 1-2 high end guys but to me is loaded with guys who could go anywhere from 3-5...I think they can go the cheap route and address that there with maybe a cheap vet fill in for insurance.

    My take on the QB situation is if they don't love Haskins, Lock, or Jones enough to take them early in this draft...then just keep Eli. If they love one of those guys, then cut Eli right from go and brace for impact by signing a cheap stop gap - Fitz, Bridgewater, Taylor, someone because I don't think any of them are day 1 guys and honestly in this draft possibly not even year 1 guys.... I don't want Eli here as the mentor...I think it leads to an ugly situation no matter what. Team Icons have not transitioned well to the next gen. Combine with this QBs is going to be really interesting. Haskins looked really good in the rose bowl. Jones was very impressive in his bowl win, but still has numerous concerns. I love Lock's arm, but he still makes some odd choices and I'm not sure how much of a leader his is - team seems to love him, but he's an "oh gosh" silent type - he's some weird combo of Eli (personality) and Jay Cutler (arm / decision making) right now.

  • MrHat
    replied
    Simms is an idiot. The Giants didn't give him 95 mil to trade him now when they are 1-2 years max away from hitting the reset button on a QB . Plus AB on the market is going to limit offers anyways...move along

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  • dak11
    replied
    Trade speculation already started with Beckham. Glazer predicting he’ll be dealt this off season and rumors starting to pop up that the 49ers and the #2 pick could become in play.

    Chris Simms also claims the Pats tried hard to deal for OBJ leading up to the deadline last season and only because of their aggression made the Giants thinkndealing gim wasnít a good idea.
    Last edited by dak11; 02-18-2019, 10:09 PM.

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  • MrHat
    replied
    Broncos trade for Flacco....means 1 QB needy team off the board and 1 extra QB on the open market.

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  • MrHat
    replied
    Gary is a beast imo. I'm of the top 5 value for him. Won't complain if that's who they get...whether at 6 or trading back. Combine will help define some of these guys like Gary, Taylor, etc who I’ve seen anywhere from top 10 to barely in the first.

    All I'll say on Murray is that no one thought Gettleman would take an undersized, pass receiving RB, back in Carolina. I think folks pigeon hole him into this old school dinosaur evaluator.... But I think he looks at the talent. Yes measurables are part of his process but I don't think it's the ultimate end all. I honestly believe the measurables come into play more in the later rounds where you’re going to need coaching anyways. Get the right physical size and mental attributes...coach em up.

    If Murray really shows out in the combine who knows what could happen. I agree its a long shot, but Gettleman has broken his rules for talent he believes in before. Personally as a exciting as Murray sounds lining up next to Beckham and Barkley I’m just too concerned over durability. At some point some 330 pound DE is going to give that kid a good bell ringing not confident he’s going to shrug that off like Eli has over the last dozen years. I think while he’s on the field he’ll be good tho...height doesn’t worry me at all. He’s a guy tho who I think you’ll need to have a “Nick Foles” type backup ready for and that’s tough with guys of his skill set. Haskins is plug and play from Eli.

    Iíll still be stunned if Jones ends up top 10. I mean Josh Rosen ended up out of the top 10 last year and heís miles ahead of a guy like Jones. I know year to year it doesnít matter, but 3 QBs in the top 10 is not a common occurrence. Lock is seriously under appreciated right now IMO. If Haskins isnít there at 6 Iíd love a trade back...but thatís probably less likely than the Giants drafting Murray.

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  • dak11
    replied
    Murray declares that he's all in on football. Tells A's, posted on twitter, and agreed to go to the combine. All these things are really good news for the Giants. Not that I think they have any plans to draft him but it means that there's now the possibility that someone else could leap the Giants (or move up to 6 in trade) to grab him. I think there's barely a 1% change the Giants would take him given his size and the Giants history of having size recommendations at every position. He'd have to be off the charts at the combine for that to happen and if it does that just means that another team might move up for him.

    So, this means that the Giants could have a better shot at Haskins, if that's their guy, a chance to move down in the draft if some falls in love with Murray and Haskins is off the board, or draft one of the top DL guys if 2 teams move up to draft both Murray and Haskins. All pretty good options at this point of the draft process. There's also a lot of talk that Daniel Jones will move up in to the top 10 before the draft process is over. I'm not sure I'm a believer in him but the more talent that is viewed as top 10 talents will only help the Giants.

    One 'mock' draft had Redskins trading up to pick 4 for Murray, Jacksonville moving to pick 5 for Haskins, and the Giants dealing the 6th pick to Miami for the 13th, 79, and a 2020 2nd. Compensation seemed a little light but they then picked RT Cody Ford.

    https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/...ock-draft-6-0/

    The most interesting guy in this draft, outside of Murray, might be Rashan Gary. I've seen him mocked in the top 5 a bunch of times and a bunch others in the 20's.

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  • dak11
    replied
    Agreed. Haskins is the only one I'm interested at #6 and even that will only be if he looks good at his pro day and combine. I'm actually leaning right now towards passing on a QB, going BPA and building the reat of the team, and putting everything into the 2020 draft for a QB.

    It basically comes down to I do not want to settle for a QB that management/coaches do not love even if it means trading a ton to move up next year. Build the team so that when that young Qb comes the team is already built to start winning.

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  • MrHat
    replied
    I'm honestly going to be very pissed if they take any QB OVER Haskins @6. In fact I'm going to be pissed if they take any QB BUT Haskins at 6. Lock is the other guy I like pre-combine, but I'm not taking him at 6.



    Walter football did their QB re-ranking after the Senior bowl and put Jones #1....no idea how they got that. I thought he was really mediocre in the senior bowl and from all reports terrible in the week of practice. Lock is the ONLY QB I came away interested in among the seniors. Again Jones' flaws dont seem to line up with what you'd think they would be so he scares the crap outta me. A guy in a pro system, coached by pro's, and has seriously decision making problems and issues reading defenses. I'd expect almost anything but those to be issues.... He holds the ball too long...misses a lot of reads...honestly I see a lot of Davis Webb in him.... he's a 3rd rounder to me.

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  • dak11
    replied
    If anyone casres. Lance Zierlein did his first mock of the year.

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...ray-to-raiders

    Top 6

    1 - Allen
    2 - Gary
    3 - Bosa
    4 - Murray
    5 - Q Williams
    6 - Jones

    Yes, he picked Daniel Jones for the Giants over Haskins who went 7th overall.

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  • dak11
    replied
    Here's the issue with trading up, even 1-2 spots. Giants do not have a 3rd rounder this year and the price based on the old draft chart would mean at a minimum it would cost a 4th/late 3rd to move up to pick 5 and a 3rd to move up to the 4th spot and that's if the Giants are lucky. The Jets paid THREE 2nd rounders to move from 6 to #3 last year so any team looking to trade out of that 3-5 spots will use that an argument. IMO I wouldn't be surprised it it costs a 2nd to move up in this draft, especially if it looks like Haskins is the only legit QB worth a top pick.

    But, If they feel he could be the guy to take over after Manning then it's a small cost. My problem is that it's tough to pick a guy to go with in January when they haven't even had their pro day, combine, or any team interviews as well as any FA's being signed. I for one would not trade up for Gary. Most rankings have him available at pick 6 and even if he's not you have an Ed Oliver, Quinnen Williams, Jobah Williams, etc. still on the board at that point.

    Right now I'm more inclined to stay at 6 and keep the picks. But, that could change if Haskins lights thing up leading into the draft.

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  • MrHat
    replied
    Originally posted by OrangeNblueNmyVeins View Post
    If Haskins is there at 6 I want him. I just don't want to trade up for him. Too many question marks to give up future assets for. As the draft process goes along these QB's are going to keep getting more and more hype. Some team will buy in and trade up. There almost always is at least one every draft which means some real talent has a good chance to fall to #6.
    I'm fine moving up 1-2 slots if on draft day he makes it past the top 3 and the Giants start getting itchy....that should be for a couple of our "extra" picks late in this draft or like a 3rd next year. I'm not giving up 2nds or 1sts for any of these guys.

    What I don't want to see is someone - like the Jags swap with Tampa and pick him. 1 spot and we lose "our" guy....basically becoming 2016 draft all over again where Reese lost his top TWO guys (rumored - but mostly confirmed later) because he never wanted to be aggressive in round 1. Lost out on Conklin AND Floyd - ended up taking Apple in 2016. If he gets to 4 I'd rather see Gettleman be a bit over aggressive to make sure they get him than just sit and wait. Like I said before I'm even okay if the Giants wanted to gamble a little and strike early to move up a slot or two NOW ....and FORCE other teams to pay big to get in front of them.

    If he gets nabbed in the top 3....so be it. If you've made it to 4 just and someone jumped to grab Haskins...that means that a Rashan Gary, Nick Bosa, or Josh Allen is available...any of which would be worth the cost of moving up for too.

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  • OrangeNblueNmyVeins
    replied
    If Haskins is there at 6 I want him. I just don't want to trade up for him. Too many question marks to give up future assets for. As the draft process goes along these QB's are going to keep getting more and more hype. Some team will buy in and trade up. There almost always is at least one every draft which means some real talent has a good chance to fall to #6.

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  • MrHat
    replied
    That's fun....and it really shows the importance of having a big QB in the pocket....not so much for the QB to get throws off, but for the receivers to clearly see the QB. If a guy is lost behind giants in the pocket, think about how many of those throws Haskins is explaining have potential to be completely lost.

    I think this kid is perfect for NY....he's not perfect overall, but again I think Lock, Haskins, and maybe even Murray just from a pure skills/mental aspect stack up competitively with last year's "great" class. Is Baker / Darnold still probably 1-2? Yeah...but I could easily see Haskins / Lock being selected before Rosen and Allen and I think Murray would have definitely been picked before Jackson.

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  • OrangeNblueNmyVeins
    replied

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  • MrHat
    replied
    Lock I think played himself into a first round lock for sure and likely top 10. Supposedly Denver loves him. He was the only guy slinging the ball thru the rain/wind in the practices outside of Jackson who still remains a massive project. In the game itself he had at 2 least 2 key drops, including a TD, that made his stat line look a lot more average than it was. If he can be Jay Cultler the QB without being Jay Cutler the jerkoff person...I think thats something you can work with. Not sure there's enough vertical action in Shurms offense to make him a fit tho....

    Jones had 1-2 passes in the game that should have been picked. So even his "mvp" rings hollow to me. A couple of the later round guys - like Stidham and Finely who walked in at best 4th rounders IMO, probably moved up to 2nd/3rd round considerations...while a potential 2nd rounder - Grier probably moved back into the 3rd/4th rounds. Minshew who had an odd amount of build up right before the week might have just played himself completely out of the draft...he was horrible.

    I'll have to see how Murray looks comes the combine, but I still think Lock would be my 2nd choice....and I'm still not sold on him @6.....but don't think they could slide back much and take him. So I still think I'm of the mindset to take Haskins or go defense at 6 and let it ride. I'd move up a slot or two to ensure Haskins, but not into the top 3. Long way to go tho

    Never have been a fan of Jones. It just has always seemed weird when people talk about how good his coaching has been, yet one of his biggest flaws has always been mental processing....Seems to me that would be a huge red flag. Like you could almost forgive some mental issues with a Qb who wasn't coached in the pro-style....but a pro-style QB should have a leg up there no? Outside of Haskin's, Murray, and Lock I really don't have an interest in any other QB unless Jackson fell to the 4th round...but he's probably someone who would need to sit / learn for MORE than a year to have a decent shot - and given his size and athletic ability I'd be surprised if he was still there in the 4th tho. Haskins remains the only QB at this point that I'd feel fine taking at 6....which likely means someone is trading up to top 3 to get him. Combine will be interesting

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