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  • #16
    Originally posted by Piney Woods View Post
    The problem with all this grassy knoll stuff is the fact that there was nothing preventing Clemens from signing a contract at any time even if he were under some kind of double secret probation from MLB. Mike Cameron was certainly able to ink a deal with Milwaukee this winter despite having to sit out the early part of the season due to P.E.D. penalties. There was also this guy named Mota who you may recall was able to do a similar thing a year or so back.
    Well Clemens wouldn't sign a contract during his suspension and then come out and say, "Whoops, sorry media. I actually can't play cause I'm suspended for taking steroids right now. No big deal, I just signed this contract now to get it out of the way."

    And if a suspension was the only thing keeping Roger out of baseball that year he could have timed it all to start playing after game 50 instead of finally taking the mound for Houston's 73rd game.
    I don't remember what happened with Mota, but are players that are suspended still allowed to pitch in the minor leagues? I'd think a suspension for P.E.D. should extend through all levels of baseball.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by thetimidmango View Post
      Well Clemens wouldn't sign a contract during his suspension and then come out and say, "Whoops, sorry media. I actually can't play cause I'm suspended for taking steroids right now. No big deal, I just signed this contract now to get it out of the way."



      I don't remember what happened with Mota, but are players that are suspended still allowed to pitch in the minor leagues? I'd think a suspension for P.E.D. should extend through all levels of baseball.
      I think Piney's post was more about Clemens signing to be READY to pitch after day 50. There's no reason he had to wait until after 50 days to sign a deal. He could have signed it after 20 days and just told the media he was using the next 30 days to get in shape on his own.

      If a players suspended I believe he has to stay away from any team related function. That included the minor league games, practices, trainers, etc. Plus, if a player signs a ML deal, that player would have to pass through waivers to get to the minor leagues outside of a rehab waiver - and if I remember correctly, that only covers 20 days.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by dak11 View Post
        I think Piney's post was more about Clemens signing to be READY to pitch after day 50. There's no reason he had to wait until after 50 days to sign a deal. He could have signed it after 20 days and just told the media he was using the next 30 days to get in shape on his own.
        Yes, that was the point ... well that and having no idea what the league's interest in covering it up would be.

        Problem is that this whole thing is based on the fact (and I don't even know that it's a fact - but I'll accept for now that it is) that Clemens signed right after Houston played its 50th game that year and that the coincidence is too strong to ignore. Except that the two things have nothing to do with one another. Cameron & Mota signed deals after being flagged but before those suspensions even began. But somehow Roger the star is forced to wait on a contract that ultimately delays his return for nearly a month after that?



        If a players suspended I believe he has to stay away from any team related function. That included the minor league games, practices, trainers, etc. Plus, if a player signs a ML deal, that player would have to pass through waivers to get to the minor leagues outside of a rehab waiver - and if I remember correctly, that only covers 20 days.
        During Mota's suspension he was limited to intra-squad (ie, non-league) games but was eventually allowed to appear in a few minor league games towards the end of the 50-day span so as to be ready right as the penalty ended. He appeared for the Mets in their 51st game.

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        • #19
          I'm not sure it wouldn't have worked in Selig's favor if Clemens had failed a test. He's taken so much heat, and Palmeiro is hardly the poster boy to show that the system works. Telling everyone that you busted possibly the greatest pitcher in history would be a hell of a claim to fame though, and we all know that Bud thinks about his legacy constantly. If you're really trying to clean up the game Clemens or Bonds would be the ultimate prize. Everyone else is pretty much a Mota or Cameron...
          "Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him."

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          • #20
            Originally posted by FrankStylV7 View Post
            Because Clemens was one of the two biggest stars in MLB at the time (the other guy was in some steroid trouble too [allegedly]).

            How can you completely dismiss this after reading actual organizational scouting reports that discussed the steroid use and histories of players?

            i.e. - We know that Paul Loduca is off of chemical enhancements. His bat speed has decreased to the point that his power is almost gone, and his long flies are now short line drives. May be better to trade him while his offensive history is still recent.

            Possible blowback - his competitive tendencies may make him begin using performance enhancers again. It would be best to trade him outside of division.

            (paraphrased)

            This was an ACTUAL DODGERS INTERNAL SCOUTING REPORT!

            I hate John Rocker, but when he came out saying that Selig KNEW that he failed a test, that was IT for me on this topic.
            so let me understand this. because the dodgers issued an internal report on LoDuca, and John Rocker claims he failed a test 4 years prior to their being any major league sanctioned testing and corresponding penalties, Roger Clemens failed a test, served a "private" 50 day suspension and then signed with the Astros?

            I think you are grasping at straws, I think it is easier said that they in fact could not agree on a deal and did not offer arbitration and consequently got caught in the rules of when he could actually play for the team, that said I do not think it is impossible that he was avoiding the random spring testing by delaying his start and because he was under a major league contract he would never be subject to the heavy random testing done in the minors. But I find it nearly impossible to believe that a guy who had an all star game end in a tie in his hometown could possibly pull off a covert suspension of Roger Clemens. Anyone more than Selig, Clemens and Drayton MacLane knowing would just make that next to impossible to keep under wraps. People pay money on the slide for that kind of news.

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