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The Fire Willie Thread Part II

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  • #76
    We need a "pro-active" general manager. Not one who stands around looking to the sky, waiting for a miracle. We've had ours, in 1969, Omar only one per customer. Now you got to do it on your own. Although it might not be all Omar's fault we have some "funky owners", who alternate between pinchiing pennies and throwing away millions of dollars. Anybody who thought that Shoenweiss was a suitable replacement for Bradford and that Brian Lawrence was a suitable replacement for Steve Trachsel (15 wins last year) needs counseling.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by MajorRanger35 View Post
      Ditto for Gardenhire. He's done a superb job every year, many times with mediocre teams (Radke was their ace!) but hasn't hit the jackpot in the postseason crapshoot. Yet again, it happens.
      you all need to really get acquainted with Gardenhire, his rosters and his successes rather than just trotting randomness out. Radke by the way was a very talented pitcher in a butcher league for pitchers prior to his arm surgey, in one of his seasons under Gardenhire, his last good one, he averaged less than a BB per start.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Ajax View Post
        We need a "pro-active" general manager. Not one who stands around looking to the sky, waiting for a miracle. We've had ours, in 1969, Omar only one per customer. Now you got to do it on your own. Although it might not be all Omar's fault we have some "funky owners", who alternate between pinchiing pennies and throwing away millions of dollars. Anybody who thought that Shoenweiss was a suitable replacement for Bradford and that Brian Lawrence was a suitable replacement for Steve Trachsel (15 wins last year) needs counseling.
        just for the record Shoenwiess was brought in to add depth to the left handed side of the pen, not to replace Bradford.

        Brian Lawerence was never brought in to replace Steve Trachsel and his absolutely undeserved 15 wins in 2006.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Ajax View Post
          We need a "pro-active" general manager. Not one who stands around looking to the sky, waiting for a miracle. We've had ours, in 1969, Omar only one per customer. Now you got to do it on your own. Although it might not be all Omar's fault we have some "funky owners", who alternate between pinchiing pennies and throwing away millions of dollars. Anybody who thought that Shoenweiss was a suitable replacement for Bradford and that Brian Lawrence was a suitable replacement for Steve Trachsel (15 wins last year) needs counseling.
          Still banging that drum huh? Never mind the fact that Trachsel, as an awful pitcher lucked into those 15 wins with some of the highest run support in the NL, technically he was replaced by your pick of either Perez or Maine, depending upon who you view as the number three starter. What the likes of Lawrence is, is the injury cover depth that was taken last season by Lima et al for the eventuality that Pelfrey/Humber/Vargas would all flunk the test. So no matter what way you look at it, the starting rotation was vastly upgraded, starting with the overdue subtraction of Steve "bottom line" Trachsel.
          "There have been artists who have failed to capture dichotomy as beautifully as the Mets have in playing Wilmer Flores at shortstop and Juan Lagares in center field."

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          • #80
            I blame Leo for the Dice-K insanity. His 13-11, 3.85 would have translated well enough to the NL, and Maine or Duque would have effectively been the fifth starter. He's also gone six in 22 of 28 starts, and never less than five...
            "Jeff is the problem with the organization, and he is never going to realize that. He cannot help himself. He has to be involved. He will never hire anyone who will not let him have major input. He will not hire anyone who does not run every personnel decision through him."

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            • #81
              I agree with Ajax's point about Trachsel to an extent. Sure, Trax didn't deserve 15 wins, but in hindsight, at least he was a durable fifth starter who could keep the Mets in a game. That's not much, but it's more than the Mets have gotten out of the fifth starter's spot since Jorge Sosa's first several starts. Someone needed to fill the role of just showing up every fifth day and pitching five innings.

              In fairness to Omar on that particular point, Omar had assembled a large crew - Pelfrey, Humber, Vargas, Soler, Park, Sosa, Sele, and Dave Williams, out of which it seemed reasonable that one of those guys could become a tolerable fifth starter. Nonetheless, I agree that Omar should have found additional outside reinforcement when it became clear, upon Sosa's collapse, that the Mets needed one additional arm in the rotation.
              Originally posted by Busyman, September 28, 2008
              1. Fire Omar
              2. Re-hire Omar so you can fire him again
              3. Literally set Omar on fire.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Chuck View Post
                I agree but once your closer is obviously in trouble and almost up to 50 pitches you cant have Heilman sitting on his hands.
                Exactly. I had ZERO problem with Wagner in the 8th, but he threw a lot of pitches in the 8th, and it was pretty obvious Wagner could be tired in the 9th. All Willie had to do, was have Heilman warming up, and the MINUTE the first batter got on, Wagner should have been pulled. Do I like the idea of Heilman in the 9th ? No. But it was a better option than Wagner, who clearly shot his load in the 8th.

                We could have had a win today, but somehow..... Willie found ways to out-dumb Manuel, and I never thought anyone could be more stupid than Manuel, Willie included.

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                • #83
                  Look, bullpen mismanagement and lineups/pinch hitters notwithstanding, a manager has little influence on the OUTCOME of the game...HOWEVER, as i originally stated, either consciously or subconsciously, teams tend to take on traits of their manager. Fiery managers have fiery players (sometimes to a fault). Joe Torre's team of "professional" yanks made me sick, but you had to admit, they went about their business and did the little things to win. Willie is like a 4th generation copy of Torre and it is sickening to watch. I think the team is either a. fed up with Willie's lack of understanding on how to manage a team or b. completely playing follow the leader and playing with an uninspired attitude and sense of belonging in first. Remember when Willie was interviewing and NO ONE was hiring him and a lot of the rumors were "he is acting like someone OWES him a managerial job?" Well, this team is certainly ACTING like the NL East belongs to them. They play the game like Willie manages:

                  Absentminded and flat.
                  BBBV!!!

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by 15 Day DL Alou View Post
                    just for the record Shoenwiess was brought in to add depth to the left handed side of the pen, not to replace Bradford.

                    Brian Lawerence was never brought in to replace Steve Trachsel and his absolutely undeserved 15 wins in 2006.
                    I'd like to see someone pitch that awful and still win the 15 games he didn't win for us this year. Bottom line, 15 wins. I don't care if the rob old ladies to get them wins. I NEVER said Trachsel deserved the 15 wins. He just got them. Trash ate up innings. Nobody can win with five pitchers who go about 5 or 6 innings.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by mikeymoves View Post
                      Look, bullpen mismanagement and lineups/pinch hitters notwithstanding, a manager has little influence on the OUTCOME of the game...HOWEVER, as i originally stated, either consciously or subconsciously, teams tend to take on traits of their manager. Fiery managers have fiery players (sometimes to a fault). Joe Torre's team of "professional" yanks made me sick, but you had to admit, they went about their business and did the little things to win. Willie is like a 4th generation copy of Torre and it is sickening to watch. I think the team is either a. fed up with Willie's lack of understanding on how to manage a team or b. completely playing follow the leader and playing with an uninspired attitude and sense of belonging in first. Remember when Willie was interviewing and NO ONE was hiring him and a lot of the rumors were "he is acting like someone OWES him a managerial job?" Well, this team is certainly ACTING like the NL East belongs to them. They play the game like Willie manages:

                      Absentminded and flat.
                      Yeah, I think Willie takes losing a little too well. This team has mostly fluctuated between pretty good and pretty awful all year long and I cannot recall reading about Willie getting on his players about underperforming. To the contrary, he seems to go out of his way to say that everything is fine.

                      And while the team is still in first place, this series with Atlanta now takes on even more importance because the Mets couldn't manage a single win over the last four games with the Phillies.

                      Let me say this - this is exactly when a manager earns his salary. This team needs inspiration and maybe a little kick in the a$$ to boot. Seems like a perfect time for the manager to flip over the buffet table and deliver one of those "don't you dare quit on me now" kind of speeches. Wonder if Willie has one ready?

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Seaver41 View Post
                        Let me say this - this is exactly when a manager earns his salary. This team needs inspiration and maybe a little kick in the a$$ to boot. Seems like a perfect time for the manager to flip over the buffet table and deliver one of those "don't you dare quit on me now" kind of speeches. Wonder if Willie has one ready?
                        Agreed with your comments Seaver, but it will never happen with Willie. He's in a coma, like the rest of the team. They just have this "no worries, all is well" mentality, and it is coming back to bite them big time.

                        Let's hope they can turn things around this weekend in Atlanta. Do they come out fighting ? Then they have a chance. Otherwise, it could very well be an damn ugly weekend for Mets fans.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by NickPapagiorgio View Post
                          Wagner ****ed up no doubt...but how about having a back up plan.
                          if you can't count on your closer to get six out ONCE in a blue moon in what is a very, very crucial situation then what good is he? This has nothing to do with willie and everything to do with wagner NOT getting it done.
                          COME BY THE SCHOOL a year from now you"ll wish you started today

                          "they all think they’re geniuses who just happen to agree with each other. This creates a near total blindness to facts, data, and opinions that don’t line up with their worldview"


                          (Originally posted by Attorney General Barr)
                          "it also does not exonerate him"
                          ​​​
                          Semper Fortis......De Oppresso Liber

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Green Must Go View Post
                            Deepleft - I have to agree with you
                            Scariest post in this thread!!!

                            Worlds are colliding!

                            Independent george is dying!
                            "Goaltender is a normal job. Sure. How would you like it if at your job, every time you made the slightest mistake a little red light went on over your head and 18,000 people stood up and screamed at you?" - Jaques Plante, goalie

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                            • #89
                              Wagner, ah sweet revenge!!!

                              Wagner blew it for us in Philly against old man Biggio almost 2 years to the day. He loves to talk about how we ripped him and Philly is the hardest place to play. I am sure the Mets fans still love him after today. He looks great all year until crunch time.

                              By the way, stop coming to our stadium. We don't need the New York sideshow.

                              JROLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                              "Team to beat"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                              • #90
                                We've sunk to such a low that we are now pining for STEVE F*CKING TRACHSEL?

                                Geez.

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