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  • "Enola Gay" pilot passes away at age 92

    RIP Brig. Gen. Paul Tibbets, USAAC/USAF

    COLUMBUS, Ohio - Paul Tibbets, who piloted the B-29 bomber Enola Gay that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, died Thursday. He was 92 and insisted for six decades after the war that he had no regrets about the mission and slept just fine at night.

    Tibbets died at his Columbus home, said Gerry Newhouse, a longtime friend. He suffered from a variety of health problems and had been in decline for two months.

    Tibbets had requested no funeral and no headstone, fearing it would provide his detractors with a place to protest, Newhouse said.

    Tibbets' historic mission in the plane named for his mother marked the beginning of the end of World War II and eliminated the need for what military planners feared would have been an extraordinarily bloody invasion of Japan. It was the first use of a nuclear weapon in wartime.
    No funeral and no headstone...how sad is that? The guy should be buried with the fullest of military honors, and people of all ilks should be able to reserve their commentary, protests, whatever for more suitable situations.
    I just took a crap and named it muhammed -- METSSC

    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles. -- Jeff Cooper, the Art of the Rifle

  • #2
    Freeing the world from tyranny comes at a hefty cost.

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    • #3
      Yes the bomb droppings were brutal in both instaneous loss of life and radiation suffering that turned into long term loss of life. But if you compare the number of lives lost to the bomb(s) versus the number of lives saved due to the impending bloody battles, the net savings in lives from this action had to be hundreds of thousands.

      May you RIP with honors Mr. Tibbetts.

      BTW - dropping the A-bomb may be the ballsiest move ever by a US President in the country's history. Something like this would never happen today due to the political correctness.
      The 2018 Mets - making the Titanic look buoyant.

      Comment


      • #4
        Notice we called them Japs back then, not People of Asian Descent.

        The 2018 Mets - making the Titanic look buoyant.

        Comment


        • #5
          War is hell. We did what needed to be done to save American lives during the most tumultuous times in American and world history. I'm glad to hear that Mr. Tibbets didn't live a life of regret. RIP.
          Originally posted by lgm6986
          Standard definition should be outlawed. My daughter was just watching iCarly a little while ago, a show that I absolutely loathe, in SD and I made her switch to its HD equivalent. In fact, I didn't make her, I grabbed the remote from her tiny hand and changed it myself. Standard definition is barbaric and inhumane.

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          • #6
            R.I.P...................A good man, who did what had to be done.

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            • #7
              May he rest in peace. My Great Uncle nearly was the one that dropped those. As it was he did complete his entire tour and every flight. He did some amazing things in that bomber and now is a big speaker on the war all over the country. However, he couldn't even talk about it for decades after. I can't imagine what it must have been like for the crew of the Enola Gay.

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              • #8
                We drop an atomic bomb on the Japenese, and they revolutionize the world and become an ally.

                A jew farts near a mosque and fatwahs are handed out like candy. Something to think about.

                Rip hero. Unlike the whiny fags who do nothing but cry and wouldn't ever know what it means to have honor. Those who wouldn't allow him, in essence, to be memorialized.
                Liberals aren't the problem... they are what allow the problem(s) to exist.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by metman View Post
                  We drop an atomic bomb on the Japenese, and they revolutionize the world and become an ally.

                  A jew farts near a mosque and fatwahs are handed out like candy. Something to think about.

                  And they call that progress.....

                  What's pretty cool about this is that the guy went on to become a Brig. General.
                  The 2018 Mets - making the Titanic look buoyant.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    His career really deserves a lot of accolades, minus him piloting the Hiroshima mission. He commanded the first B-17 mission for the 8th AF from England over France in 1942. He was one of the B-29 test pilots and supposedly was Eisenhower's personal pilot for part of the war. Before he retired in the 1960's, he was running the National Crisis Center in the Pentagon.

                    Also, everyone talks about how horrible the two atomic blasts were, but no one ever brings up the firebombing campaign that we were engaged in up to that point. Tokyo lost somewhere between 200,000 and half a million alone, and well over 50% of the city was destroyed. The first attack alone, in March of '45, killed between 80,000 and 100,000, burned 16 square miles of Tokyo, and burned so hot the canals in the city actually boiled.

                    Between March and August of '45, 58 Japanese cities were firebombed. 51 square miles of Tokyo were completely destroyed. Some cities were totally wiped off the map (Toyama, a city of 128,000, was 100% destroyed in a single raid). Lemay figured out that with Japanese cities being made mostly of wood and paper, they'd go up like a match. Four cities were kept off the bombing list: Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Niigata and Kokura, as potential atom bomb targets. They had to set aside targets, because Lemay figured that by Christmas of '45, they would run out of targets for incendiary bombing.

                    Arguably, the only reason the atomic bombings worked in forcing Japan to surrender, was because of the incendiary bombing up to that point. The atomic bombings, both in terms of destruction and casualties, were a complete joke compared to the firebombings of Japan.
                    I just took a crap and named it muhammed -- METSSC

                    The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles. -- Jeff Cooper, the Art of the Rifle

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      R.I.P. to an airman who did his duty well. The greatest generation is fading fast...

                      As the son of an infantryman who had survived Europe and who would have most probably been part of the invasion of Japan - if it had come to that - I personally appreciate the war ending when it did.

                      Regarding the use of the A bombs, I believe the idea of dropping them was really to produce the "shock and awe" effect of their day. Maybe not so much to get the Japanese to surrender, which, of course, was the stated objective, but perhaps more to establish the US and not the Soviet Union as the global power following WWII.

                      This is why I can't say, like some people do now, that using the bomb was wrong. It has to be viewed in the context of the times and at the time, the USSR had this fierce army that began strong-arming their way into eastern Europe. Who knows what would have happened had they developed the technology to create and deliver the bomb before us?

                      We had to show them - and the rest of the world who viewed us as the good guys who had their back - that we had and would use the bomb.

                      It was the right move...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mule View Post
                        Arguably, the only reason the atomic bombings worked in forcing Japan to surrender, was because of the incendiary bombing up to that point. The atomic bombings, both in terms of destruction and casualties, were a complete joke compared to the firebombings of Japan.

                        That may be true, but don't you think the type of bomb had an affect on the decision? People were dying from radiation, not just the explosion or the fires. I think this forced the issue of surrender.

                        But you are right in that the atom bomb alone would not have resulted in surrender, even if they had dropped more of them. It was just the final straw in making the Japanese realize there was no hope.

                        Here are some staggering stats. Germany lost over 10% of its population, and the entire world's population was dropped by 3.70%! In today's context, it is totally mind-boggling that over 25 million people died in this war over a six year period (16+ million between Germany and Soviet Union alone). High casualties are no longer acceptable in today's American society. Consider US troop losses in: WW2: 400+K over 4 years Vietnam: 50+K over 8 years Iraq: 3+K over 4 years

                        Another amazing stat is that the US casualties were only 1.6% of the total casualties for the entire war. Undeniably those numbers were kept lower because the war did not take place on US soil.

                        Human Losses of World War Two by Country

                        Country Population 1939 Military deaths Civilian deaths Jewish Holocaust deaths Total deaths Deaths as % of population

                        Albania 1,073,000 28,000 200 28,200 2.63%
                        Australia 6,998,000 39,400 700 40,100 0.57%
                        Austria 6,653,000 40,500 65,000 105,500 1.59%
                        Belgium 8,387,000 12,100 49,600 24,400 86,100 1.02%
                        Brazil 40,289,000 1,000 1,000 2,000 0.00%
                        Bulgaria 6,458,000 22,000 3,000 25,000 0.38%
                        Burma 16,119,000 22,000 250,000 272,000 1.16%
                        Canada 11,267,000 45,300 45,300 0.40%
                        China 517,568,000 3,800,000 15,805,000 19,605,000 3.78%
                        Cuba 4,235,000 100 100 0.00%
                        Czechoslovakia 15,300,000 25,000 43,000 277,000 345,000 2.25%
                        Denmark 3,795,000 2,100 1,000 100 3,200 0.08%
                        Estonia 1,134,000 40,000 1,000 41,000 3.62%
                        Ethiopia 17,700,000 5,000 200,000 205,000 1.16%
                        Finland 3,700,000 95,000 2,000 97,000 2.62%
                        France 41,700,000 212,000 267,000 83,000 562,000 1.35%
                        French Indo-China 24,600,000 1,000,000 1,000,000 4.07%
                        Germany 69,623,000 5,533,000 1,810,000 160,000 7,503,000 10.77%
                        Greece 7,222,000 20,000 220,000 71,300 311,300 4.31%
                        Hungary 9,129,000 300,000 80,000 200,000 580,000 6.35%
                        Iceland 119,000 200 200 0.17%
                        India 378,000,000 87,000 1,500,000 1,587,000 0.42%
                        Indonesia 69,435,000 4,000,000 4,000,000 5.76%
                        Iran 14,340,000 200 200 0.00%
                        Iraq 3,698,000 1,000 1,000 0.03%
                        Ireland 2,960,000 200 200 0.00%
                        Italy 44,394,000 306,400 145,100 8,000 459,500 1.04%
                        Japan 71,380,000 2,041,000 580,000 2,621,000 3.67%
                        Korea 23,400,000 60,000 60,000 0.26%
                        Latvia 1,995,000 147,000 80,000 227,000 11.38%
                        Lithuania 2,575,000 212,000 141,000 353,000 13.71%
                        Luxembourg 295,000 1,300 700 2,000 0.68%
                        Malaya 4,391,000 100,000 100,000 2.28%
                        Malta 269,000 1,500 1,500 0.56%
                        Mexico 19,320,000 100 100 0.00%
                        Mongolia 819,000 300 300 0.04%
                        Netherlands 8,729,000 7,900 88,900 106,000 202,800 2.32%
                        Newfoundland 300,000 1,000 100 1,100 0.37%
                        New Zealand 1,629,000 11,900 11,900 0.67%
                        Norway 2,945,000 3,000 5,800 700 9,500 0.32%
                        Philippines 16,000,000 57,000 90,000 147,000 0.92%
                        Pacific Islands 1,900,000 57,000 57,000 3.00%
                        Poland 27,007,000 100,000 1,900,000 3,000,000 5,000,000 18.51%
                        Portuguese Timor 500,000 55,000 55,000 11.00%
                        Romania 19,934,000 300,000 64,000 469,000 833,000 4.22%
                        Singapore 728,000 50,000 50,000 6.87%
                        South Africa 10,160,000 11,900 11,900 0.12%
                        Soviet Union 175,500,000 10,700,000 11,900,000 1,000,000 23,600,000 13.44%
                        Spain 25,637,000 4,500 4,500 0.02%
                        Sweden 6,341,000 200 200 0.00%
                        Switzerland 4,210,000 100 100 0.00%
                        Thailand 15,023,000 5,600 300 5,900 0.04%
                        United Kingdom 47,760,000 382,600 67,800 450,400 0.94%
                        United States 131,028,000 407,300 11,200 418,500 0.32%
                        Yugoslavia 15,400,000 446,000 514,000 67,000 1,027,000 6.67%

                        Totals 1,961,071,000 25,036,500 41,364,700 5,754,400 72,155,600 3.70%
                        Last edited by Green Must Go; 11-02-2007, 10:12 AM.
                        The 2018 Mets - making the Titanic look buoyant.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Green Must Go View Post
                          That may be true, but don't you think the type of bomb had an affect on the decision? People were dying from radiation, not just the explosion or the fires. I think this forced the issue of surrender.
                          I think it did, in a "holy ****, what are they going to do to us next?" kind of way. By that winter, that country was going to cease to exist in one fashion or another, it was all a question of how. Like you said, it was the last straw on the camel's back, so to speak.
                          I just took a crap and named it muhammed -- METSSC

                          The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles. -- Jeff Cooper, the Art of the Rifle

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The enormity of the war is really hard to fathom in terms of the number of human casualties both military and civilian. 25 million refers solely to military casualties. The total number is closer to 70 million. 70 million, an unbelievable number.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A few things on that chart stand out.

                              Like, for instance, how is it that Mexico had 100 civilian deaths? Maybe it was through U-boat attacks?

                              Another thing I noticed was that the percentage of French military deaths was higher than the percentage of US military deaths - .050 to .031. Of a population of 41,700,000 they suffered 212,000 military deaths. Our population was 131,028,000 and we lost 407,300 men.

                              It also says we lost 11,200 civilians. Aside from those in Pearl Harbor, I assume the balance were in other South Pacific places like the Philippines? I guess a good number were killed in Europe as well? I had no idea we suffered so many civilian casualties.

                              These numbers are just staggering - 19,605,000 Chinese and 23,600,000 Soviet Union dead. They couldn't all have been killed directly by Japan and Germany, could they?

                              The chart says that the military deaths for China total less than 4 million, and the balance - nearly 16 million more - were civilians. The Soviets are split pretty evenly with 10,700,000 soldiers and 11,900,000 civilians respectively. I understand that famine and disease played a role as well, but the latter number of dead in both cases has to reflect a fairly large percentage killed by their respective governments, no?

                              And all of this came on the heels of the 21 or so million killed in Europe in WWI. And all of this says nothing of the millions upon millions more injured in both wars.

                              What a world...

                              Not to spin this thread off into the latest flame fest over Dubya, but for him to have spoken about Iraq in the past, and now liken Iran as the future adversary in WWIII (with both providing the "greatest test" our country, and by extension, the entire world has ever faced) is the biggest load of irresponsible rhetorical bullsh*t I have ever heard and an absolute insult to every American and allied soldier who ever served or died in any war prior to his ascension to his throne.

                              In the face of numbers like these, how anybody could say it isn't is beyond me...
                              Last edited by firststringer; 11-02-2007, 02:05 PM.

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