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2020 Offseason

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  • 2020 Offseason

    Just to have a new thread every once in a while.....

    Was curious about thoughts on what the Knicks are going to do in the offseason with these 1 and "optional" guys -

    My take is dump them all but maybe Bullock - but I tend to doubt that's what the Knicks are going to do

    Payton - 8 mil option (1 dead cap) - Back. I think this dude is putting up the most hollow stats ever - great example was in the Jazz game where he had 8 points in a "big" 3Q, but gave up 4 straight layups + an one to Conley and Mitchell in a 1 min 15 sec space in that same Q. That said I can't imagine them giving him 30 mins a game right now and them not seriously considering bringing him back. I think they re-up (ugh)

    Ellington - 8 mil option (1 dead cap) - Gone. I have no idea why he's playing over Dotson, but he's shooting pretty much a career worse. He's had some streaks, but mostly he's a chucker. Doubt the Knicks even mess this one up.

    Bullock - 4.2 mil option (1 dead cap) - Keep. He's faded down the stretch, but for 4 mil he seems like a solid bench option next year. Again he's shooting the worst of his career, but high character and plays hard on D. I think he and Dot are damn near the same player, but for 4 mil he's a solid buy.

    Taj Gibson - 9.5 mil option (1 dead cap) - Gone with a chance to bring back at a lower #. Decent soldier. I could see the Knicks keeping him because the big man FA market is thin, but the price is waaaay too high. Still they seem to be pushing the need for a Vet to keep around Mitch. Wouldnt be surprised if they decline the option, but then try to get him back cheaper.

    Portis - 15.7 mil option - Gone. Right? I worry here. I kinda feel like the Knicks are going to keep him, but there is no damn good reason why. His salary is way too high. I still have no clue how a 7 footer provides absolutely 0 rim protection. I mean just standing with his arms up feels like that should be good enough for at least a 1/2 a block a game. I think they ultimately do right and move on, but he worries me even more than Payton - because lolknicks

    Allen - 2-way/Early Bird - Gone. Bringing back Payton seals his fate. Peters may get his spot, dude has played well in the G league. Seems like there's more upside there.

    Trier - Early Bird - Gone. If anyone makes him an offer the Knicks aren't matching. I do not like him, but for a lower number I could still see the Knicks looking. I still feel like someone will give him like 2 / 9 - the Knicks aren't going there....that money is better used

    Dotson - Restricted - Back. As long as someone doesn't throw crazy money his way. I think a 2-3 year deal worth around 4 per would be perfect. Why does he get so many DNPs? No clue, but to me he's proven himself to be a solid 8th/9th player off the bench.

    Wooten - Restricted - 2 Way - I think he comes back on a two-way. His injury/lack of showcase at the NBA level probably prevented any real offers coming his way. Would have liked to get a look at him this year, but may work out better for the knicks. Still a weird like micro-version of Mitch. Don't know if that player ultimately can play in the NBA, but worth keeping around.

    Others - the 1 year crew

    Frank - 6 mil - Back. I still think his 3P shot is going to continue to improve (guys who should 85+% at the line shouldn't be shooting 31% from 3), but he'll be a solid bench piece that the new coach will like regardless of who it is. Atkins, Thibs, Miller, JVG, are all defensively minded and a wing/guard player like Frank will be valued in their systems.

    DSJ - 5.7 mil - Gone. Trade. Buyout. Something. Again this is where I think bringing back Payton ends any hope of value from Smith. Also I look at the rumored coaches and NONE of them are going to value Smith. A spread, pushing offense, like Mike D or what they are trying to run in Atlanta or Charlotte type coach might keep him over Frank, but assuming the Knicks stay close to the kind of coaches the papers are writing about he doesn't fit at all. I think about the best they can hope for is a 2nd rounder OR just to include him in a deal for matching salary reasons. I see many people say "might as well keep him" given the salary, but again I think between the draft and my expectation that they bring back Payton means that the Knicks do the right thing and move on. If I'm wrong on Payton, then he's likely back just on the hope to salvage SOMETHING....

  • #2
    Dolan just tested positive for covid 19
    “President Obama is a personal friend of mine,” said Rickles. “He was over to the house yesterday, but the mop broke.”

    It's early!!!

    Be the kind of person that when your feet hit the floor each morning liberals say "Oh crap he's up"


    • #3
      Originally posted by METSSC View Post
      Dolan just tested positive for covid 19
      The "Dark Side of The Force" will prevent fatal harm from coming to the Dolans and WILPONS!

      They apparently have interest in Brand for GM.. PASS

      But we can all be thankful Perry was canned..asa this would have likely come to fruition..

      One deal at the deadline that had internal support with the Knicks would've sent Julius Randle, Dennis Smith Jr., and a future first-round pick to Charlotte for Terry Rozier and Malik Monk (via @IanBegley)

      Would have been so typical...

      Citifield & Mets...the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE"


      • #4
        The trade is fine other than that last part. I'd do Rozier and Monk for Randle and DSJ in an instant...also keep in mind the source


        • #5
          I kind of believe the rumor.. as this trade was rumored very near the deadline..with interest in Rozier and Monk being publicized just before Perry was canned.. the only new info was the absurd #1 pick being included..and with the potential desperation of Perry trying to cling to job..I lean towards believing whole thing was true..

          I wouldn't have loved the deal either way..never liked Rozier much and while he would have improved Knicks pg situation..that isn't all that hard to say with what they have to work with currently..

          With the goal of getting the pg of the future in this upcoming draft.. I would pass on Rozier's overpaid contract..even if is not that much longer than Randle's commitment..

          Rather try to unload Randle for something else this off season..or ride it out one more year at worst..


          Citifield & Mets...the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE"


          • #6
            Its more just fit - Randle just doesn't fit with Mitch and RJ. I think he's a useful player, but when your style doesnt mesh with your two best young players he's gotta go.... and hey I wanted Randle here - but his 3P shot was a fluke not a step in development. I thought he was developing something, but its clear it was just one of those team-based perfect storms netted him 35%. He went right back to his career 27% this year which just doesn't work when you also play no D. Rozier isn't great...I'd argue Randle is the better player, but he fits in almost any scheme....actually plays D and shoots the 3 pretty well. Toss in if they have any interest in Ball or Cole (or Wiseman or Toppin for that matter) in this draft Randle's game further clashes with those two.... finally not that I have ANY faith in him developing at this point but Randle is also blocking Knox from playing the only position he can on the court right now. Kid still can't drink yet so I guess I shouldn't completely give up.

            If the Knicks aren't in on VanVleet I'd circle back around to this.... I highly doubt the rumor of the pick...if it is I could see a 2nd or at most maybe the right to swap picks, but not giving up one. Mills and Perry have had a death grip on those....and everything else meshes up too nicely - the Hornets had 2 guards emerge that are cheeper, swap of draft busts in their last year - Rozier has an extra year to cancel out any perceived value of Monk > Smith (which is BS IMO considering this time last year it would be the hornets including picks to swap Monk for Smith).


            • #7
              Don't disagree with any of your evals.. just prefer an 'alternative' in terms of talent in return for Randle.. I too was fooled on him..also thought his passing would be a PLUS for this team given his resume of triple doubles on his resume.. now that could be the lack of shooters on team that made him either CHOOSE to shoot it /handle (MISHANDLE/Turnover) the ball more as he figured he had to as no one else was making a I do somewhat wonder..with better talent around him..and proper coaching..He could be a better fit on this team..but I certainly not married to him..

              Saw an article while back..forgot to post..on Knicks supposed interest in targeting Christian Wood in off season.. guy came out of nowhere and played very well for them..especially after dumping Drummond..

              Dont recall why they even think Pistons would let him go..perhaps due to their cap issues or inability to keep him for some other reason..but that would seem intriguing as a good fit?

              Citifield & Mets...the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE"



              • #8
                Think he's an RFA - Wood is another guy who doesn't make sense unless you move Randle first...and I don't believe in him that much. He played well, but everyone was gone - SOMEONE had to score on that team. I feel like its the David West / Charles Smith syndrome. Every team has someone who puts up points. This was his first year playing over 20 games...he doesn't rebound particularly well. Isnt a plus defender. I'm kind of skeptical of his shot given that he's a 73% FT shooter. Find it hard to believe he can sustain a near 40% 3P clip. Just don't really buy guys who games suddenly all come together in a FA year - should have followed my own advice on that with Randle....

                Same kind of thing worries me a little bit on Brandon Ingram, BUT outside of his massive jump in FT% (67% over his first 3 years - 86% this year) his numbers a largely the same.


                • #9
                  Moving Randle first was the given..but he could be Randle 2.0 I guess..

                  Struggle to come up with viable fa targets that are "fits" orhervthan few previously discussed..then throw in the proverbial would they even want to play here..sprinkled in with the inevitable lottery drop kick to the

                  Citifield & Mets...the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE"



                  • #10
                    Yeah which is why you and I have generally been fine with just trading an absorbing contracts.... I've been leaning towards trying to get actual decent players that are overpaid on the "cheap" vs just taking on garbage for draft picks but basically cap space for this team at this point is worthless. Not many are interested and even the ones who are they have to overpay. Until this team gets 1/2 way decent no one gives a crap....if this team can get to a .500 level FA's will WANT to come. No stars want to come know they have to elevate a 20 win team to 50 otherwise they'll be killed. They get bench players who want to start - Payton, Portis, types or 3rd/4th wheel guys who want to try to be stars - Randle, Hardaway

                    We've talked about Paul - so long as its not costing draft picks...the contract I could care less about

                    What about Aaron Gordon? He's got 38 mil-ish left on his deal. Would you go Randle and maybe a sweetener for Gordon? Statistically shouldn't even have to throw in a pick, but I think the overwhelming thought is that there's still more value in Gordon than Randle so maybe you include the Clips pick or that protected Mavs one in a couple of years?....

                    How about Markkanen, Porter for Knox / Randle ? Four guys who havent lived up to it....change of scenery deal. LM is clearly better than Knox, but Randle is better than Porter and his bloated contract. That said Porter's 3P shot spacing helps this team a hell of a lot more.

                    I know none of those deals really move the needle, but I'd look to try to find better fits for the roster and hope that helps the young guys grow
                    Last edited by MrHat; 04-10-2020, 10:48 AM.


                    • #11
                      I have soften my stance on Paul despite his he fills the MAJOR need..and vet presense and can make others better..but my concern remains tread on tire..durability..once here..will he be motivated to play thru/come back to a 25-30 win team..or stay home and collect like all other older vets have done..

                      LM I was also looking at ...perhaps a possibilty as it seemed Biulls were souring on him..he not a big rebounder either..and D ...seems lateral move at best..A. Gordon..athletic...could be swayed..depending on price tag..(trade demands)

                      Stabilty in FO/coaching also a big key going forward..but as usual..drama/poison will never go away..
                      ACCEPTED TRUTH: That I will be ROYALLY F**CKED OVER by EVERY TEAM I ROOT FOR (METS, JETS & KNICKS) !!!

                      Citifield & Mets...the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE"



                      • #12
                        Yeah LM is just about spacing again...the rebounding thing is interesting tho... Mitch is obviously a strong bounder.... RJ is as well. The need for a 10 board a game 4 may be minimal *IF* the Knicks commit to starting Mitch...AND end up drafting a Ball who would be an exceptional rebounder from the guard spot. Haliburton and Cole were good college rebounders as well, but not sure either translates to the NBA due to size/strength. Biggest thing with him is cost...maybe you can convince me to give up the protected Mavs pick or the Clips pick for him or like I said Knox....but that's about it....I think the Bulls still feel he has top 10 kind of pick return despite the issues which is just waaaay too rich for my blood.

                        In any case outside of 2-3 FAs that look interesting its going to be the trade route for the Knicks if they want to change the look/feel of the team and I'd be fine using cap space to get the right kinds of fits even if they aren't all-nba players as I just have little expectations of them being players in the 2021 FA period....been burned twice waiting for those "magical" offseasons


                        • #13
                          Sad but true..

                          Meanwhile..on cue..


                          We shall see if true...
                          ACCEPTED TRUTH: That I will be ROYALLY F**CKED OVER by EVERY TEAM I ROOT FOR (METS, JETS & KNICKS) !!!

                          Citifield & Mets...the place where Sluggers Careers go to DIE"



                          • #14
                            fluff piece....I do worry about the CAA connection in general tho. In the past that has done far more harm than good. (Bargs)


                            • #15
                              Never happen - but thoughts on a trade for Mitchell?

                              I think the price would likely be too high...I also have 0 interest in trading RJ for Mitchell - I think peak RJ is right there. Yeah who knows if he gets to that level, but to me Mitch and RJ are our building blocks....I'm not moving those guys. The one exception is if its basically straight up - *maybe* I'd toss in a Mavs pick, but that's about it. Honestly even then it would be painful for me.

                              Most I would do - Knicks pick this year, 2 Mavs picks, and whatever else they want on the roster - Knox, Frank, whatever. I'd be fine taking back Conley as well - which if they want his salary gone that probably means Randle going back. Even saying it out loud I'd hang up the phone if I was Utah - but that's what I could max out on as Knicks fan. Something like -

                              Payton (need a throw away contract)
                              3 firsts



                              It's actually not the worst fit for Utah as Randle I do think would fit their system, but the ONLY way I could see them being even slightly interested in it is if they love one of the guys in this years draft.

                              I don't think that buries the Knicks future development - they give away "extra" picks, but still have picks every year out. They basically swap this years lottery for a sure thing in Mitchell. I've said already I think they need to move Randle to get the best out of Mitch / RJ so no huge loss there. I'll miss Frank, but thats me.... In the draft you can no look for a 4/wing with the Clips pick...

                              One thing I havent heard is are the Jazz interested in moving Gobert? Makes more sense to me than them trading Mitchell. He's older. He's already been paid. I mean he's a heck of a player, but just doesn't fit the Knicks timeline, but he'd definitely be an interesting dude for a contender.