Ding Dong Mills is done...

[MrHat]

1 down.... Perry to hopefully follow.

I certainly expect a terribly stupid deadline deal to come. I mean how much more Knicks could it get than to fire your president, have a lame duck GM, and then go execute a direction changing trade?

Dolan also rumored to be looking at some CAA guys to become the next Prez.

It's like this team is a horrific mix of the Mets and Jets......

[Hojo of 1991]

Grizzlies turn their 17 mil in cap space they used to absorb Iguodola into a 1st round pick and Justise Winslow. We signed Bobby Portis. When will this team ever be that smart?

[86mets]

YO ! Good to see you guys..had given up here..

We have much catching up to do Hat.. plenty to dissect on the $hit storm of a franchise !

[MrHat]

Oh yes indeed...I had pretty much switched to SBNation sites to post/read. Not the same as here...but yeah...Knicks still a **** show.

They do 1 good thing - Fire Mills
Then for some insane reason hire Stoute who immediately puts his foot in his mouth and basically verbally fires Miller and insults every celebrity knicks fan in 1 breathe..... oh brother...

They trade Morris - yay, but started giving minutes to DSJ


I'm ready to talk draft.....been watching a lot more college of late and starting to peak in on highlights of some guys. Halliburton and Hayes are my current PG interests (and of course Hal breaks his hand)....I can even get behind some non-PG prospects...Toppin looks real interesting

[86mets]

Oh yes indeed...I had pretty much switched to SBNation sites to post/read. Not the same as here...but yeah...Knicks still a **** show.

They do 1 good thing - Fire Mills
Then for some insane reason hire Stoute who immediately puts his foot in his mouth and basically verbally fires Miller and insults every celebrity knicks fan in 1 breathe..... oh brother...

They trade Morris - yay, but started giving minutes to DSJ


I'm ready to talk draft.....been watching a lot more college of late and starting to peak in on highlights of some guys. Halliburton and Hayes are my current PG interests (and of course Hal breaks his hand)....I can even get behind some non-PG prospects...Toppin looks real interesting

Didnt even hear the Stoute thing specifically.....as was still recovering from licking wounds from the dagger to heart Cohen deal collapse..but gathered it was a beaut. The Whole Leon Rose thing was like deja vu Brodie 2.0...was very annoyed..but slightly simmered down when thought thru al little that NBA being a players league..with alll his contacts.."perhaps" could be positive recruiting wise if he is competent..but then again Dolan still above to torpedo things kind of negates that..

Was suprised/Happy in the end what the received for Morris..was apraid they would get holding the bag in the end..but made out well considering Lakers pulled out of negotiations..

Dissappointed they couldnt dump Portis/Elle/Gibson for idc what..2nd round picks in 2035 for all I cared..just to clear our roster spots for ohers to get more PT.

Miller has been doing decently coaching like I thought he would..but at this poin playing the Vets. all the minutes he is doing is not doing the youth on team any good..I get they arent showing well..(Knox) but they MUST see what the have and try and develop..but when Miller prolly knows he will be unemplyed soon once Leon takes over..its hard to expect Miller to not try to pad resume' and win as many games as possible...

Draft.... rely on you for the intel..

and Noooooooo did not know Hal broke hand..he is the guy (statistically) been trying to keep an eye on and one who I felt should be a strong target..

Ball scares crap out of me with the father..and his "immature" behavior (heard he left Australian team without even speaking to coaches..just left country) ..his 3pt shooting looks to not be grea either..but his passing and size...intriguing..but overall too volatile..

C. Anthony... I get is on a bad team trying to do too much..but idk the fit with RJ.. and thats the thing Im trying to keep in mind...What player(s) you see being a nice fit with RJ/Mitch (cant say Knox at this point) as the core? I thought HAl would be perfect... I guess edwards too? But that would mean RJ goes to 3..is that ideal? What you think of Nico?

What about MArkus Howard... see the numbers he putting up? He is tny..but can he be trae like? chucks alot of 3's... projected as a 2nd rounder..

I hear Obi is climbing charts..but would mean they hopefully dump Randle..

Their seem to be alot of wings tha can shoot projected to go late 1st and 2nd round..could be useful piece there to be had with the late 1st arly 2nd they have..

And Lastly...any NBA stars you would target with the chestful of picks they have at disposal? Would think KAt now off the board now that they got DLO.. And Beal likely off the market...so not sure who that leaves potentially... if Sac. were to make Heild available that could be interesting..

[METSSC]

I’m down on Cole Anthony. Nothing really excites me in this draft. I’d probably trade down if it makes sense and take a Paul Reed or Stanley from Duke. Does anyone still hold out hope for Kevin Knox or can we officially label him a dud

[MrHat]

I really want to like Cole. He flashes the whole package.... Great range, great handle, explosive penetration.... But he's just so horribly inefficient ...I think he's a bigger sized Sexton. I still hold out hope but he's low on my list at the moment.



Nico is going to get owned in the NBA. Not explosive. Small measurables. His shot hasn't been great this year either. I think he's a back up at best.

Forget Ball. RJ is never going to be a great shooter. They need guys with range around him.

In terms of using the picks for players? I'm not there yet. I would have considered KAT but I'm not sure I buy a stretch 5 that plays 0 D ever leading a championship team. I think next year would be the time to look closer at that with 2021 FA sign and trades.

This off-season the raptor FAs interest me...

[86mets]

I really want to like Cole. He flashes the whole package.... Great range, great handle, explosive penetration.... But he's just so horribly inefficient ...I think he's a bigger sized Sexton. I still hold out hope but he's low on my list at the moment.


Haliiburton?


Nico is going to get owned in the NBA. Not explosive. Small measurables. His shot hasn't been great this year either. I think he's a back up at best.

Forget Ball. RJ is never going to be a great shooter. They need guys with range around him.

In terms of using the picks for players? I'm not there yet. I would have considered KAT but I'm not sure I buy a stretch 5 that plays 0 D ever leading a championship team. I think next year would be the time to look closer at that with 2021 FA sign and trades.

This off-season the raptor FAs interest me...

Vanfleet?

[MrHat]

Halliburton looks like the man...he’s my top guy right now for where they’ll probably pick, but he needs some meat on his bones to last a full season. None of these guys are sure things like JA, Zion, RJ were last year

VanFleet yeah.... Ibaka too...I think he can play the 5 along with Randle if they can’t move him. VanFleet works if they draft a PG or not. He can play the 2 and slide RJ to 3. I don’t mind blowing some budget this year as the only way the 2021 class is coming here is by 1. Winning 2. Engineering some kind of sign and trade...might as well spend it

[MrHat]

I don't think I explained well -

Cole - physically/skill wise combo he's the best PG in this draft IMO - however the shot hasn't been sharp and the efficiency has been horrible. Lots of excuses for him can be made because of the overall team thats around him. But you see the potential there - he's already a plus defender. He's got range - he just needs better shot selection. He's got an explosive step towards the rim - needs to finish a bit better around it, but the talent is all there. He's a risk, but higher ceiling than any of them if he ups his BBIQ. He's the "safe" name pick for the NY Fans....a little bit like RJ in that he'll be "good" but does he make people around him better? That's the biggest thing in doubt. I'm more confident in RJ improving his weaknesses than I would be Cole to be honest.....

Halliburton is all about efficiency and production. His shot looks great, he doesn't turn the ball over, BUT at the same time - he's not the most explosive player. He's 6'5", but he's a 170 pounds, he can get abused by bigger guards. He plays good D, but physical guards are going to own him up. His shot is a little slow so again against bigger guards is he going to be able to get it off as consistently? He's probably the 2nd best passer next to Ball tho. I think he's "safe" solid PG who should give this team what they need - spacing and distribution. He's a guy who unquestionably makes the team better, but I don't think he's set on track to be a "star" - I picture his ceiling as something like a Malcolm Brogdon.

Hayes is right behind Haliburton on my list - and I know the Frank comparisons are going to come. Everything I've seen and read is this guy isn't Frank 2.0. His shot is mature. His handle is significantly better. He honestly kind of fits right inbetween the 2 above - He's got more explosiveness than Tyrese, but he's not a jump out of the gym guy like Cole. His shot is good and his BBIQ is solid. He's got great size and can be physical. His 3 point shot is still a bit of a question that's my main pause on him at the moment, but go watch some highlights - he looks like Donic-Lite out there with a much stronger handle. Definitely higher ceiling than Haliburton, maybe not quite as high as Cole, but he's also further along and has a better chance of getting there IMO. The concerns - how will NY react to another Euro guard? Can he get that 3P shot down? He'll be another super young guy - at some point we can't run a team of 19-20 year olds out there.....I think Hayes could be a Jamal Murray....


Ball if you ignore the distractions around him - he's the most physically ready of all the PGs. He's probably the best passer. He's got a great handle. Dude just can't shoot. It's not as broken "looking" as his brother's, but he's also not hitting the %s that his brother did in college....which is a bit alarming. I think he's probably somewhere between Lonzo and Ben Simmons - but his lack of interest on D, his attitude, and the drama he'll bring along with him is major cause for concern. *IF* he could get his outside shot under control - man, seriously his ceiling is huge - but I think the road map set by those other 2 guys there pretty much shows thats not going to happen. I just worry this CA front office is going to look at his "name" and go for it... luckily(?) he'll probably be off the board before the Knicks pick.

With their later pick - I'd love to see a Vassell or Ramsey or Nesmith fall to them, but I tend to think both will be gone. SGs/Wings who can just snipe and play D. Jalen Smith was a top target, but I think he's climbed waaay too far up now. I'm starting to like Daniel Oturu tho. He's not elite athletically like Robinson to defend smaller guys outside, but he's a better rebounder. Great shot blocker. Has shown some range on his shot (far from a stretch 5, but he's not a complete 0 out there like Mitch). I think he'll be there....

There's some stab in the dark guys - Makur Maker (Point Center? - maybe with Char's 2nd rounder). I'm looking at some C's or PFers for depth with the Clips pick based on mocks and in the 2nd I'm just looking for the best athlete. I think they've built themselves a good "bench" of role players so honestly I'll just kind of go with whatever there....the 1 thing this team has been great at in the last 10 years is actually finding talent in the 2nd round.

FA wise - Yeah VanVleet. He interests me at Brodgon type money (or less obviously). Sniper. Solid ball handling. He's not a "Wow" passer, but he gets the job done. Tough defender. Then like I said even if the Knicks draft a Halliburton or whoever I think with the size of Frank, Haliburton/Cole/Hayes, RJ you can do some shuffling around and make lineups work. VanVleet can definitely play off-ball....that's something that Cole and Hayes havent proven yet. Again reminds me of the same kind of path of a Brogdon. Backup who worked his way up through efficiency and good BBIQ. I root for those kind of guys.

I'd also make a push for Bogdanovic. If he's too expensive I'd look shorter term at KCP or Harris. The Knicks badly need to stretch things out to let Randle OR RJ work the inside.

They also need a C / PF depth. I'm not in love with the FA Cs. So I'd poke around Favors or Ibaka - see what the price tags are. I'm thinking - maybe incorrectly, that they are going to be shorter term deals given age. I'm thinking in the 15ish over 2 years range.

[86mets]

Awesome..he type of scouting was looking for..

Your assessment pretty much matches what I been reading/seeing as well... And my opinions based on these reports thus far..still has me leaning towards Haliburton as the fit for this team..

Risk that Ball ends up the best of the class..but too volatile..and as a Knick..would be destined to fail..but very afraid the new sherrifs in town will have him as top choice..and hopefully wouldnt do anything stupid to go all out for him by trading up..

iF H off the board..then I suppose Anthony the right pick after that..

As far as other picks..

Nesmith was on my Radar..and agree J. Smith will be long gone..Ramsey looks interesting..and what about Jordon Nwora? Just under 7 ft wing span..knocks down 3 's and rebounds well..

And MArkus Howard for 2nd round as well? short...but can shoot..

FA? Picking slim.... Van F. I loves Canada..kind of doubt Khan lets him go..

Ibaka for right terms could fit..

Favors..whos game I liked..just is always hurt..so not sure about him...

Had interest in Bogs. too...but what about making a run at Hayward..? Think he could be a nice fit with Rj..

[MrHat]

Hayward I'm not sure opts out...and I think his "name" will generate more $$ than he's actually worth. I don't think he's a $30+ mil player, but thats what he'd get in his option - Not sure he's opting out and then taking 20something mil over 4 years vs just collecting his 34 mil

Markus Howard is just too small IMO. They claim he's 5'10-11 I believe - which means he's probably more like 5'8/9. I used to get crushes on those type of players tho - the super productive undersized junior/senior shooters - I think my last was Frank Mason III. I really wanted the Knicks to grab him in the 2nd round - at their size the shot just never seems to make it to the NBA. Dude shot almost 50% from 3 his senior year if I remember cant even shoot 30 in the NBA.

Nwora is interesting - I think he's got that tweener question - I'm pretty sure he can't play the 2....I don't know if he's athletic/quick enough to play the 3...and I'm pretty sure he's not strong enough to play the 4. He'd be seriously interesting if he could legit play/guard NBA 2s. Instead I see him being pushed down to 3/4 and I don't think he can hang with some of the freak athletes the NBA seems to have all over those spots. My take is he's a bench player you can look for right matchups for. I think some of the other guys I listed have potentially higher ceilings. If he's there in the 2nd round I'd definitely take the jump, but I suspect he'll be gone.

[MrHat]

Side note to everything -

Thibs? Really? - Jeebus this team can't get out of its own way. Here's how I look at this - are they a contending team next year? Hell no. Unless Anthony Davis is ditching LA and sworn to come to the Knicks they can make all the FA moves I'd want them to and they are at best a bottom feeding seed in the EAST. So what's the need to run out and get an established coach?

I really don't understand why they are just extending Miller for 2 more years right now. He's done a solid job. Is he going to lead this team to a championship? Probably not but he's shown that he's competent. Has an idea of what to do offensively and has done really a great job reshaping the defense. I'm handing him the wheels for at least next year....after that lets see what happens...but to me, that means you give him a 2 year extension now. I think its a no brainer...and frankly I called it 2 years ago when they were courting Fiz that they should have just given the job to Miller then if they were going the newbie coach route. I can't help but wonder where this team would be at - and the fan base - had they made that call.

Other side note - Kyrie done. The biggest thing that might have saved this franchise from itself was Kyrie's desire to go to Brooklyn and KD's desire to play with Kyrie.....this is very much shaping up to be another Garnet/PP type move for the Nets.

[86mets]

Side note to everything -

Thibs? Really? - Jeebus this team can't get out of its own way. Here's how I look at this - are they a contending team next year? Hell no. Unless Anthony Davis is ditching LA and sworn to come to the Knicks they can make all the FA moves I'd want them to and they are at best a bottom feeding seed in the EAST. So what's the need to run out and get an established coach?

I really don't understand why they are just extending Miller for 2 more years right now. He's done a solid job. Is he going to lead this team to a championship? Probably not but he's shown that he's competent. Has an idea of what to do offensively and has done really a great job reshaping the defense. I'm handing him the wheels for at least next year....after that lets see what happens...but to me, that means you give him a 2 year extension now. I think its a no brainer...and frankly I called it 2 years ago when they were courting Fiz that they should have just given the job to Miller then if they were going the newbie coach route. I can't help but wonder where this team would be at - and the fan base - had they made that call.

Other side note - Kyrie done. The biggest thing that might have saved this franchise from itself was Kyrie's desire to go to Brooklyn and KD's desire to play with Kyrie.....this is very much shaping up to be another Garnet/PP type move for the Nets.

Yeah.. was with you in very beginning as well with Miller..I saw what he did in Summer League ..and that intrigued me enough to continue see him working with some of those SAME players in NBA..like davey Johnson did with Mets..and for the state of the franchise it is in now..all true..whats the point..given up hoping the FO or Coach is gonna be the key to bringing a TOP FA..so that rationale is out the window..but this is the Knicks...sound rationale never exists..

The whole Kyrie issue was really main one I didnt want him..never killed his talent..but guy never can stay on court..now I also feel he had very little incentive to stay on court this season without KD..but find it hard to believe he will be an iron man going forward next season..and this is still not speaking to nets having no clue how KD's rehab will go overall..so was a giant risk..jury will still be out(for a while) if their will be a reward.

Kind of sux that alot of the top draft talent wont even be in tourney to see up close and scout..this will be total blind going to draft more than I can ever recall..

[MrHat]

Get used to it....next year is probably the last that we'll have any chance of tourney tape on top prospects with the supposed high school draft being 2022. The last couple of years the top 10 has been chocked full of 1 and doners - now those guys wont even count to 1. High school tape is useless to me.


It'll be really interesting to see what happens with all of this - look at how many of these guys DONT produce as expected in college, but still go out to the draft riding their high school hype - will be super interesting to see what happens to the kids who decide to go the college route - does this lead to more guys spending longer in college developing their game if they don't have that magical freshman year knowing that random hyped highschooler is taking those top spots? How does this change coaches handling of freshman? Right now there's so much pressure to get these guys out there on the court and make them a focal point knowing their gone after a year.


Lots of people calling for Miller to play the kids more - and I get it - I'd love to see it too...but what does Miller have to gain by playing the kids right now? The organization has basically told him he aint here next year. Is he supposed to watch Knox fall all over himself for 30 mins out there every night just to help the Knicks? At this point dude is trying to show his coaching style - how he wants to run a defense. How he wants to play O. Guy is coaching for a job SOMEWHERE because this organization threw him under a bus. As much as it makes no sense for the Knicks to play Portis, Payton, Taj, etc that 1 year contract guys...frankly most of those guys are better than the kids so who's the guy going to use?