The Johann could have...should have...would have thread

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

First let me point out that this could have been in any of quite a few of threads already out but I thought these stats deserved a thread and comments of their own..

I believe Santana has done his job. Mets offense has not supported him... do you realize that with a few more runs he could be the leader in wins and 3-4 losses?

I know...should have....could have...would have... I know the ace should do this and that. I know that Carlton won 27 games with a team that won only 50+ games in the year while finishing in last place BUT... in reality, this is what "could have been" had the Mets supported his pitching with some offense...

In conclusion, for the pitching staff to look better, the Mets need a CLEAN-UP hitter. Mets need some runs!


DATE GAME W L IP H R-ER HR BB SO
MAR 31 @FLA 1 0 7.0 3 2-2 1 2 8 WON 1-0
APR 06 @ATL 0 1 7.0 7 1-1 0 0 3 Should have won (2-0)
APR 12 MIL 0 1 6.2 6 5-4 3 2 7 LOST (2-1)
APR 18 @PHI 1 0 7.0 4 3-3 1 0 10 WON (3-1)
APR 23 @WSH 1 0 7.0 7 2-2 0 1 4 WON (4-1)
APR 29 PIT 0 0 5.2 2 2-2 2 3 7 NO DECISION (Could have won)
MAY 04 @ARI 0 0 6.0 6 1-1 0 4 8 Should have won (5-1)
MAY 10 CIN 1 0 6.0 10 3 3 1 1 5 Won (6-1)
MAY 17 @NYY 1 0 7.2 7 4 4 3 2 5 Won (7-1)
MAY 22 @ATL 0 1 7.0 12 4 3 0 0 1 LOST (7-2) gave up 3 ER
MAY 27 FLA 1 0 7.0 8 3 3 1 2 7 Won (8-2)
JUN 01 LAD 1 0 7.2 6 1 1 0 3 6 Won (9-2)
JUN 06 @SD 0 1 6.0 7 2 1 0 1 5 Should have won (10-2)
JUN 12 ARI 0 0 7.0 3 0 0 0 3 10 Should have won (11-2)
JUN 17 @LAA 0 1 6.0 8 5 4 1 2 5 Lost (11-3)
JUN 23 SEA 0 1 7.0 7 5 1 1 2 4 Lost (11-4) gave up 1 ER
JUN 28 NYY 0 1 6.0 4 3 3 0 4 8 Lost (11-5) gave up 3 ER
JUL 04 @PHI 0 0 8.0 6 2 2 0 0 6 Should have won (12-5)

Even in the games lost, if the Mets had gotten into an "offensive explosion" of 4 runs, that would mean 2 less losses and I believe 1 or 2 more wins (or at least no decisions instead of losses)

Yes he is the ace but he hasn't been as bad as we make it to be.

Would you be happy with 12 wins and 5 losses in the worst case scenario of the above stated probablities?

METS NEED RUNS RUNS AND MORE RUNS !!!

[NickPapagiorgio]

If it all comes down to run support then why are we even bothering to pay him $140 mill? That is my biggest problem with everyone that thinks everything is fine and dandy with Santana. If you give a slightly above average pitcher good run support you will win those games as well. We aren't paying Santana to win the games when the Mets score 5 runs. We are paying him to win the games when they only score 2 or 3. I am not saying the guy has to be perfect and win every game regardless of what the offense does but how about winning one? And how about seeming to care after the game that he let the lead get away instead of throwing teamates under the bus for making errors that lead to you giving up a GS to the opposing pitcher and saying things like "I did my job." Yesterday was a huge game to start a huge series that very well could end the season, especially if they get swept. He was given a two run lead and he pissed it away. I don't care if they were dinks and dunks. Last night he didn't do his job as an ace. Simple as that.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Originally Posted by NickPapagiorgio

If it all comes down to run support then why are we even bothering to pay him $140 mill? That is my biggest problem with everyone that thinks everything is fine and dandy with Santana. If you give a slightly above average pitcher good run support you will win those games as well. We aren't paying Santana to win the games when the Mets score 5 runs. We are paying him to win the games when they only score 2 or 3. .

Based on that criteria I believe he would have won 10 games....

[manatwo]

Originally Posted by LAS VEGAS DAVE

Based on that criteria I believe he would have won 10 games....

You're missing the point - an ACE should be able to get a real 2nd baseman and keep Alou in the lineup.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Lets say Johann is still pitching for the Twins... same record....same ERA....same W-L..... and the Twins offered him to the Mets for the same players that were traded for him.... knowing what his contract would look like.... would you do it? Would the mets do it? Would any team not do it?

[Bay Ridge Dave]

Originally Posted by manatwo

You're missing the point - an ACE should be able to get a real 2nd baseman and LF.

Fixed.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Something to look at is Sabathia's trade value... with his 2008 record...

AND Sabathia is NO Johann.....

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Originally Posted by Bay Ridge Dave

Fixed.

YUP.....

GIVE US A LF !!!!

[strummer]

Originally Posted by LAS VEGAS DAVE

Something to look at is Sabathia's trade value... with his 2008 record...

AND Sabathia is NO Johann.....

Sabathia is 6-8. He clearly sucks and teams would be stupid to trade for him and give him a Santana like deal

[Paulie Cee]

When you pitch 6 innings or less there are no "should have wons." What he "should have" done is pitched past the damn 6th inning.

He's a good pitcher, nothing more.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by LAS VEGAS DAVE

YUP.....

GIVE US A LF !!!!

Do not fret! Omar hears your cries! He is working hard on obtaining a versatile Latino Frenchman as we speak!

[Green Must Go]

Bottom line is that you can't find a pitcher good enough to get wins, the way the inept Mets offense is hitting.

Mets have the pitching - now get some ****ing players that can hit the ball. And get Blowtran out of the clean up spot.