Overhauling the bullpen

John Delcos Mets Report · 09-23-2008, 12:30 PM

The Mets blew 29 save opportunities so far this season, and with them, perhaps a chance at the playoffs. Adding a top notch closer such as Francisco Rodriguez*would improve the bullpen, but not put it over the top.Billy Wagner blew seven save opportunities, but even worse was the bridge leading up to him. It was [...]

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mets84 · 09-23-2008, 12:40 PM

SS has another year on his contract, no? And as a LOOGY he's very good.

It's going to be tough to throw money at this problem and fix it, which means Omar, if he returns, probably isn't up to the challenge. It's tough to find reliable middle relievers who can pitch to both sides of the plate; middle relievers, by definition, are inferior pitchers - otherwise they'd be starting. Most of them are righties who don't have an out pitch for lefties, or vice versa. The Mets bullpen, except for maybe Ayala (who stinks against both righties and lefties), are full of these types of guys.

Maybe they go after a Wheeler and hope he remembers how to get lefties out. Maybe they hope Feliciano remembers how to get righties out. Most definitely, they should bring in about a billion AAAA arms and see who sticks. There should be absolutely no guaranteed jobs.

freakzilla11 · 09-23-2008, 12:42 PM

The problem is that SS isn't just used as a LOOGY.

Neither is Feliciano.

ROOGY? Nope, the 4 of them aren't used like that either.

The Mets need one ****ing guy that can get LH or RH out.

ONE.

mets84 · 09-23-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakzilla11

The problem is that SS isn't just used as a LOOGY.

Neither is Feliciano.

ROOGY? Nope, the 4 of them aren't used like that either.

That's not their fault; in a properly structured bullpen, they're useful parts.

mets84 · 09-23-2008, 12:47 PM

Really, the Mets were undercut to a large degree this year by Feliciano's sudden inability to get righties and Heilman's sudden inability to get anybody.

Not that that should excuse Omar; he shouldn't have counted on these guys without stockpiling other arms somewhere else. And he really shouldn't count on any reliever sustaining prior success in any given year.

NYUNITE · 09-23-2008, 12:55 PM

complete fantasy bullpen....

sign K-rod or fuentes, the team needs someone who's had success closing on the major league level

sign Lyons, Juan Cruz, or another comprable FA setup man- yes, free agent deals for relievers never work out, but can anyone be worse than what we have?

trade Hielman for a reliever- package him with Carp or Evans and maybe another minor leaguer and send them to a small market team looking for a starter, maybe Pittsburgh for Capps or Oakland for Street, not sure how many are availbale though

keep feliciano and smith as specialists

see what parnell can do in the 7th or 8th inning

maybe look to japan for a long reliever (Koji Uehara maybe?)

stockpile figueroa, stokes, kunz and others at AAA just in case

Sports Doctor · 09-23-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

-Billy Wagner: Won’t pitch for the Mets again. No brainer. However, he will get paid $11 million by them, and that will inhibit what they do this winter. I don’t see them paying both Wagner and Rodriguez.

If this ends up being true this is ****ing despicable on ownerships part.

MrHat · 09-23-2008, 01:49 PM

I'd just go see what Fuentes wants. I think paying 15 mil per for the number of years Rodriquez looking for is largely a waste

They are just too flakey. Its rare to have a Rivera out there. Even the ones who do remain good end up looking like Wagner (missing chunks of time with injuries) or Hoffman (becoming more and more a compiler each year).

If that doesnt work, stock up the MR arms and let a guy like Parnell get a shot at it

Sports Doctor · 09-23-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHat

I'd just go see what Fuentes wants. I think paying 15 mil per for the number of years Rodriquez looking for is largely a waste

They are just too flakey. Its rare to have a Rivera out there. Even the ones who do remain good end up looking like Wagner (missing chunks of time with injuries) or Hoffman (becoming more and more a compiler each year).

If that doesnt work, stock up the MR arms and let a guy like Parnell get a shot at it

I cant make it through another season of patchwork bullpen and scrubs and journeymen and washed up guys, if Parnell an unknown is giving the closer job you might as well assume the Mets are making next year a transition year. If the past two y ears have stressed the importance of over bolstering the rotation and bullpen then the Mets will never win.

MrHat · 09-23-2008, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sports Doctor

I cant make it through another season of patchwork bullpen and scrubs and journeymen and washed up guys, if Parnell an unknown is giving the closer job you might as well assume the Mets are making next year a transition year. If the past two y ears have stressed the importance of over bolstering the rotation and bullpen then the Mets will never win.

The closer isnt the end all be all. The Mets spent 10+ mil on Wagner and he still blew 7 games in 1/2 the season

All I'm saying is rather than spending 15 mil on Rodriguez...I'd spend 7-8 o Fuentes and 7-8 split between 2 other guys..... Or if they cant get Fuentes I'd split 15 between 3 people to make sure that 7-8 innings are locked down and then even settle for a lesser closer.

Even with as good as Roriguez has been this year in terms of quantity he's still blown 7 games. Which is about the same as when the Mets had Looper/Benitez/Wagner....all of which were significantly cheaper

Sports Doctor · 09-23-2008, 03:09 PM

Especially if they continue this collapse, I cant see any alternative of this team then to spend more money, I know people hate it, but KROD even if hes double the price of Fuentes is still BETTER than Fuentes, and better than 90% of closers...I see Anaheim bringing him back but if not Omar better be all over him.

MrHat · 09-23-2008, 03:26 PM

I agree he's better, but I think that Fuentes + 2 MRs is better than Roriguez + what the Mets have now.

There is a budget here and the Mets already have to decide what to do with Perez and fill in at least 1 other spot in the rotation at an absolute min.

Sports Doctor · 09-23-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHat

I agree he's better, but I think that Fuentes + 2 MRs is better than Roriguez + what the Mets have now.

There is a budget here and the Mets already have to decide what to do with Perez and fill in at least 1 other spot in the rotation at an absolute min.

We got a decent amount of garbage salary coming off the books this off season, Pedro, Alou, El Duque, Schoenshit thats enough for K-Rod, Juan Cruz and someone else

James D. · 09-23-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sports Doctor

We got a decent amount of garbage salary coming off the books this off season, Pedro, Alou, El Duque, Schoenshit thats enough for K-Rod, Juan Cruz and someone else

I think Schoenshit has one more year left on his deal.

MrHat · 09-23-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sports Doctor

We got a decent amount of garbage salary coming off the books this off season, Pedro, Alou, El Duque, Schoenshit thats enough for K-Rod, Juan Cruz and someone else

Any money you save on Pedro just goes right back in to get his replacement.

Alou made ~8 mil and Duque ~6....that is maybe enough to get K-Rod alone...but thats about it. The Character has another year left

09-23-2008, 12:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
John Delcos Mets Report Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 238	Overhauling the bullpen The Mets blew 29 save opportunities so far this season, and with them, perhaps a chance at the playoffs. Adding a top notch closer such as Francisco Rodriguez*would improve the bullpen, but not put it over the top.Billy Wagner blew seven save opportunities, but even worse was the bridge leading up to him. It was [...] More...

09-23-2008, 12:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
NYUNITE Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 157	complete fantasy bullpen.... sign K-rod or fuentes, the team needs someone who's had success closing on the major league level sign Lyons, Juan Cruz, or another comprable FA setup man- yes, free agent deals for relievers never work out, but can anyone be worse than what we have? trade Hielman for a reliever- package him with Carp or Evans and maybe another minor leaguer and send them to a small market team looking for a starter, maybe Pittsburgh for Capps or Oakland for Street, not sure how many are availbale though keep feliciano and smith as specialists see what parnell can do in the 7th or 8th inning maybe look to japan for a long reliever (Koji Uehara maybe?) stockpile figueroa, stokes, kunz and others at AAA just in case __________________ http://steveneelliott.blogspot.com/ blog?

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09-23-2008, 01:49 PM	#8 (permalink)
MrHat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 2,849	I'd just go see what Fuentes wants. I think paying 15 mil per for the number of years Rodriquez looking for is largely a waste They are just too flakey. Its rare to have a Rivera out there. Even the ones who do remain good end up looking like Wagner (missing chunks of time with injuries) or Hoffman (becoming more and more a compiler each year). If that doesnt work, stock up the MR arms and let a guy like Parnell get a shot at it

09-23-2008, 03:09 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sports Doctor Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,168	Especially if they continue this collapse, I cant see any alternative of this team then to spend more money, I know people hate it, but KROD even if hes double the price of Fuentes is still BETTER than Fuentes, and better than 90% of closers...I see Anaheim bringing him back but if not Omar better be all over him.

09-23-2008, 03:26 PM	#12 (permalink)
MrHat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 2,849	I agree he's better, but I think that Fuentes + 2 MRs is better than Roriguez + what the Mets have now. There is a budget here and the Mets already have to decide what to do with Perez and fill in at least 1 other spot in the rotation at an absolute min.

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