FrankStylV7

Does anyone think that Vegas sports books have any interest in "the integrity of sports"?

Personal feelings - if a gambler or bookie loses his ass because a 160 lb shortstop decides to do 'roids and become Miguel Teja--..... errr, a power hitter, he deserved to lose his ass.

Could organized crime be greasing this inquiry?

__________________
"The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum." -

Havelock Ellis

Paulie Cee

It's not exactly like "Vinny Ears" plunks down two dimes on the Dodgers only to have Craig Counsell do steroids before the game and hit five homers to beat them. You kind of know the score long before you put any money down.

dak11

Organized crime doesn't care. Their whole business is playing one side against the other and collecting the vig.

It's highly doubtful that any 'bookie' would put himself in a position to lose their shirt. When one side of a bet gets too big for them they'd just lay it off with another bookie and act as the middleman.

FrankStylV7

Then who in **** cares?

It's been all but proven that the "new fan", with the attention span of a gnat, loves a freakshow and has no interest in the nuances of a 1-0 pitchers' duel where the winning run scores on a squeeze.

If it wasn't for the juice-ridden 1998 "homerun chase" MLB might be in the shitter right now.

**** it ---

Put 'em ALL on 'roids.

I want to see some 5'7" relief pitcher come in in the 9th inning of a 13-11 game throwing 105 MPH and face some 6'7" 350 lb meathead with forearms as big as my shoulder span and a waistline smaller than mine.

Oh, and the guys on 2nd and 3rd are former Olympic sprinters who can still hit 9.9 in the 100M.

Seriously - WHY does ANYONE give a flying **** WHAT athletes are doing to themselves?

If any of YOU could shorten your lives by 15 years to make hundreds of millions of dollars you know damned well you would have. How many wannabes do we have posting here? We've got some college and high schools athletes and hangersons, we've got a couple of guys that might have had pro tryouts.... you telling me that you wouldn't do it??

I had a tryout with the Rockies in 1992, if someone told me that juicing for 3 years up to that time would've gotten me the 5/$25 mill contract that Mike ****ing Lansing got to play 2B, you bet your last pube that I'd be taking my heart and liver meds right now.

These jagoffs are entertainers. They aren't gods, they aren't role models, they aren't people teaching, raising and providing medical care to your kids.

They're entertainers. Like the WWE muscleheads, they are paid to put on a show.

If the public wants that show to include 550 foot homeruns, 100 MPH fastballs in the 9th inning and guys that can run 4.2 40's, then that's what MLB needs to provide.

Do any of you REALLY care if these guys kick off at 50 from enlarged hearts? Do any of you know SQUAT about ballplayers from 30 minutes on after they retire?

More importantly - do they care about YOU?

If not, let 'em 'roid up, put on a show and we'll forget their names when they aren't worth watching anymore.

"Oh!!! but the integrity of the game!!! You can't keep proper historical context when comparing the all-time players!!!"

Guess what statnerd? You can't anyway.

Go ahead and compare Ruth, with no Black competition and no physical training against Mickey Mantle who didn't have 21st century medical access for his assorted ailments to Rafael Palmeiro and his "better living through chemisty".

You can't. Don't try.

You compare players against their contemporaries, not against the dead and buried.

Call 1990-the "medicinally enhanced era", just like the "deadball era", the "liveball era" and the "pitchers' era" and ****ing be done with it.

Shut the **** up and enjoy the show.

But the children!! The children!!!

If you suck so bad at parenting that your kids kill themselves with HGH then nuts to you. My tax dollars don't need to be shoveled into a bonfire to protect your kids from doing **** that they'd be doing with or without media coverage of pro sports.

Hell, when I was in HS 20 years ago kids were doing amphetamines before and during track meets and football games. Frankly, I did before a couple of 400M dashes before the heart palpitations and throbbing in my head scared me shitless. (I would later learn to enjoy these side effects, but that's another story.)

Watch the games, teach your kids right from wrong and let people determine their own fates based on their own actions.

__________________
"The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum." -

Havelock Ellis

metman

GREAT God damn post.

__________________
SHUT Your FESTERING GOB...You TIT!

Franco45

Frank, did you really have a tryout with the Rockies in '92?

FrankStylV7

It was an open tryout for anyone that could prove that they played ball in HS, college, the minors or independent leagues.

Nobody was signed that day.

__________________
"The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum." -

Havelock Ellis

Paulie Cee

Who ever gave a crap about the health of the players? If they want to mess around with sh*t that will kill them before they hit 50 that's they're business. This was always about the baseball record book.

FrankStylV7

I've heard plenty of politicos state that they're using their influence to protect kids from evil role models.

As far as the record book goes - it's basically irrelevant - you just can't compare players of different eras.

Where would Ted Williams be on the all-time HR, hit and RBI list if he didnt' lose FIVE years to the military? Willie Mays lost 2.5.

__________________
"The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum." -

Havelock Ellis

Green Must Go

I think we should just skip over the superoided humans and go right to the cyborgs or robots playing the game. Kids these days are so used to video games, they might not notice the difference anyway.

__________________
Obama's least favorite scripture: Even while we were with you, you gave you this rule: "Whoever does not work should not eat." - 2 Thes 3:10

NeilAllen

That might be your opinion, but if that was true then why the obsession prior to 1998 with baseball records? A large part of the appeal of baseball for a lot of people was it's unique historical continuity.

__________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard." --H.L. Mencken

FrankStylV7

Yeah?

And a lot of pasty geeks that have never even seen a live naked girl sit around their Grandma's basements and invent VORP and BABIP.

You tell ME that you can accurately compare the performances of Ty Cobb to Willie Mays to Ken Griffey, Jr.

I get a kick out of statnerds that invent complex equations that can "predict" what Babe Ruth would have accomplished if he played from 1985-2005 rather than 1917-1938 (or whatever).

I wonder if they consider the effects of global warming in their math.....

Terrific - Bonds beat McGwire who beat Maris who beat Ruth.

-Ruth didn't play against Black competition and hit into a TINY RF.
-Maris played in 162 games rather than Ruth's 154.
-McGwire had access to errr... "better medical technology" than Ruth and Maris.
-Bonds may have had the same pharm company as McGwire but he also wore neck to ankle kevlar that would have embarassed both Ruth and Maris.

HOW can you compare these four guys?

Take it back even further, and you see that the guy that Ruth beat (actually he beat himself going from 29ish-54ish hrs from his last Boston season to first Yankee season [bet you were expecting a masturbation joke!]) hit about 15 "shots" where the ball tossed at him was essentially a doggy chewtoy.

Go ahead and play with your math - I'm gonna eat some brats, drink some beers, curse at Delgado and enjoy the chick in the mezzanine that keeps taking her top off.

__________________
"The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum." -

Havelock Ellis

KingOlerud

But the historical record isn't about what could have happened. It's about what did happen.

And steroids is about cheating as opposed to playing straight up. The people that played during each era you refer to did so on an even field. And the people who broke the law and risked their health in the last twenty years to gain an edge, GOT an edge.

There's a reason why the best pitcher and hitter of our time are both being hoisted by their own fat-headed petards. They, along with a bunch of others, cheated to get an edge. And they cheated anyone and everyone who didn't.

FrankStylV7

ass sphincter says ............ "Gaylord Perry and his Hall of Fame plaque...."

Besides, how is it NOT an "even playing field" when we have NO IDEA how many guys have participated.

Come on, in the 80's 30 HRS was a HUGE accomplishment. Heck, Straw hit 39 in 1988 and second place in the NL was 30.

Now 30 won't even get you in the top 20 in your league. You telling me that only a handful of guys have bought into better living through chemistry?

__________________
"The place where optimism most flourishes is the lunatic asylum." -

Havelock Ellis

Paulie Cee

I can count the number of great "non-white" pitchers in baseball since Ruth retired on one hand. What Ruth didn't hit against were hundreds of mediocre middle relievers on a daily basis. And that tiny RF you speak of lasted into the 70's.

Maris was also chasing a hallowed record under constant scrutiny. Ruth was just having a ball.

Cheater.

Bigoted cheater.