The Fire Willie Thread Part II

[NickPapagiorgio]

Originally Posted by Deepleft34

Willie must go! Omar should be right behind him.

For:
1) Omar turned Kris Benson into El Duque and John Maine.
2) Omar robbed Oliver Perez

Against:
1) Traded Bell and Ring for Adkins and Johnson
2) Traded Lindstrom and Owens for vargas
3) Traded Bannister for Burgous
4) Incorrectly waited for Dauner Sanchez instead of upgrading an already desperate bullpen
5) Incorrectlt waited for Pedro Martinez instead of upgrading at strarting pitcher. Brian Lawrence has not been the answer.
6) Scott Schowenweis deal
7) Aaron Sele deal
8) Gueirllmo Mota deal
9) Moises Alou (whom I like, but is much too brittle)
10) Sticking w/ Julio Franco for as long as he did


I don't care about the big signings...anyone w/ a checkbook that large can do that.

Imagine where this team would be if they had those arms in our pen right now.

You can add not trading for Codero to that list.

[MetfanBren]

It's hard to have a backup plan when you have to dip into your bullpen in the fourth inning. It sucks even more that it was such an uncharastic outing for El Duque of late...

Sele had his chance to actually contribute something meaningful to the season too. I think Sosa might be a ticking time bomb, but he would surely make a better long man than this clown. I guess you don't need to cut him with rosters expanding on Saturday, but pray he never gets the ball again as a Met...

[Deepleft34]

I figured that was taken care of in #4

4) Incorrectly waited for Dauner Sanchez instead of upgrading an already desperate bullpen

[Gregory Gewirtz]

Originally Posted by Deepleft34

Willie must go! Omar should be right behind him.

For:
1) Omar turned Kris Benson into El Duque and John Maine.
2) Omar robbed Oliver Perez

Against:
1) Traded Bell and Ring for Adkins and Johnson
2) Traded Lindstrom and Owens for vargas
3) Traded Bannister for Burgous
4) Incorrectly waited for Dauner Sanchez instead of upgrading an already desperate bullpen
5) Incorrectlt waited for Pedro Martinez instead of upgrading at strarting pitcher. Brian Lawrence has not been the answer.
6) Scott Schowenweis deal
7) Aaron Sele deal
8) Gueirllmo Mota deal
9) Moises Alou (whom I like, but is much too brittle)
10) Sticking w/ Julio Franco for as long as he did


I don't care about the big signings...anyone w/ a checkbook that large can do that.

Imagine where this team would be if they had those arms in our pen right now.

You left out Shawn Green on the negative side. Both Omar and Willie have looked less and less impressive as time has rolled along, and I completely agree with your belief that the big signings are not a fair way to judge a GM's value since those really come down to the money provided by the owners. I wouldn't give a sh|t if both Omar and Willie were sacked, but I'd be stunned if that happened unless they fail to make the playoffs both this year and next year.

[nique]

Sometimes you gotta do things you don't normally do. This pen stinks. What is the plan? Heilman, so instead of a game winning single, it's a walk off Homer? Mota? Who? Sosa. The plan is for your overrated closer to save the damn game.

[Deepleft34]

Originally Posted by 15 Day DL Alou

this is a bullshit thread, if he took at Wagner you'd be blaming him for whomever he brought in, the real culprits in the end of that game, Marlon Anderson playing no doubles defense with nobody out and Wagner and LoDuca falling asleep at the wheel when Werth stole third.

Quite frankly, I blame Willie for that. the manager should be either instructing, or having a coach instruct, the infield defense. Also the manager needs to have his team ready to play. If a player is dogging it, taking him out. This is not MLB 2K7 for playstation, these are real people who need to be motivated. Willie puts out his lineup and then makes decisions based on GUTS and FUNK and FEELINGS. How about looking at a g0ddamn book on baseball strategy. He is in way over his head and I think the reason he was passed over so many times as a manager was because during his managerial interviews he never explained he knew how to manage. Omar hired him because he was, and this is almost word for word, because he was from New York and knows how to win.

[graves9]

Originally Posted by NickPapagiorgio

Wagner ****ed up no doubt...but how about having a back up plan.

There's no question call me crazy, but after Fagner struggled in 8th I would have had Heilman out there vs the bottom of the lineup in the 9th.

[NickPapagiorgio]

Originally Posted by Deepleft34

Quite frankly, I blame Willie for that. the manager should be either instructing, or having a coach instruct, the infield defense. Also the manager needs to have his team ready to play. If a player is dogging it, taking him out. This is not MLB 2K7 for playstation, these are real people who need to be motivated. Willie puts out his lineup and then makes decisions based on GUTS and FUNK and FEELINGS. How about looking at a g0ddamn book on baseball strategy. He is in way over his head and I think the reason he was passed over so many times as a manager was because during his managerial interviews he never explained he knew how to manage. Omar hired him because he was, and this is almost word for word, because he was from New York and knows how to win.

I have been saying it for weeks. Maybe when people kept saying Willie needed to go to the minors and manage they were on to something...but no it was all about race why he didn't get a job.

[Green Must Go]

Originally Posted by Deepleft34

Quite frankly, I blame Willie for that. the manager should be either instructing, or having a coach instruct, the infield defense. Also the manager needs to have his team ready to play. If a player is dogging it, taking him out. This is not MLB 2K7 for playstation, these are real people who need to be motivated. Willie puts out his lineup and then makes decisions based on GUTS and FUNK and FEELINGS. How about looking at a g0ddamn book on baseball strategy. He is in way over his head and I think the reason he was passed over so many times as a manager was because during his managerial interviews he never explained he knew how to manage. Omar hired him because he was, and this is almost word for word, because he was from New York and knows how to win.

Deepleft - I have to agree with you

[Green Must Go]

Originally Posted by Gregory Gewirtz

You left out Shawn Green on the negative side. Both Omar and Willie have looked less and less impressive as time has rolled along, and I completely agree with your belief that the big signings are not a fair way to judge a GM's value since those really come down to the money provided by the owners. I wouldn't give a sh|t if both Omar and Willie were sacked, but I'd be stunned if that happened unless they fail to make the playoffs both this year and next year.

Are you saying these two have lost their shine??

[MetfanBren]

5) Incorrectlt waited for Pedro Martinez instead of upgrading at strarting pitcher. Brian Lawrence has not been the answer.

Interesting. He did put in what was thought to be a ridiculous bid ($41 mill) on Dice-K, only to have the Red Sox make and even more ridiculous one ($52 mill). Of course most people would have freaked out if they did have the high bid, but it could also have been a huge factor this season. Not only would he have been a very good/very good starter most of the time, but he would have spared us the torture of the #5 (Pelfrey, Lawrence, Sosa). And at least he didn't panic and outbid the Yankees on Igawa because of it...

He also offered Zito 5/$75 mill, with the understanding that he'd go higher on money but not on years. How's that working out for all the people who said he should have been signed at all costs, which would have the Mets on the hook for $116 million until 2013 right now...

Other than that I'm not sure what he could have done, and I don't see anyone offering alternatives either. But what else is new?

[Deepleft34]

Originally Posted by NickPapagiorgio

I have been saying it for weeks. Maybe when people kept saying Willie needed to go to the minors and manage they were on to something...but no it was all about race why he didn't get a job.

Maybe Omar should follow him.

[15 Day DL Alou]

Originally Posted by Deepleft34

Quite frankly, I blame Willie for that. the manager should be either instructing, or having a coach instruct, the infield defense. Also the manager needs to have his team ready to play. If a player is dogging it, taking him out. This is not MLB 2K7 for playstation, these are real people who need to be motivated. Willie puts out his lineup and then makes decisions based on GUTS and FUNK and FEELINGS. How about looking at a g0ddamn book on baseball strategy. He is in way over his head and I think the reason he was passed over so many times as a manager was because during his managerial interviews he never explained he knew how to manage. Omar hired him because he was, and this is almost word for word, because he was from New York and knows how to win.

and shockingly, the Mets have won since he came, but it is all luck when they win, and Willie when they lose, you are typical New York sports fan, they call them weather vanes.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by nique

Sometimes you gotta do things you don't normally do. This pen stinks. What is the plan? Heilman, so instead of a game winning single, it's a walk off Homer? Mota? Who? Sosa. The plan is for your overrated closer to save the damn game.

I agree but once your closer is obviously in trouble and almost up to 50 pitches you cant have Heilman sitting on his hands.

[MajorRanger35]

Originally Posted by 15 Day DL Alou

and shockingly, the Mets have won since he came, but it is all luck when they win, and Willie when they lose, you are typical New York sports fan, they call them weather vanes.

No, Willie had better players than the managers before him. That's why he wins. I said it in Part I of this thread, and I'll say it again: this isn't football. Willie isn't Bill ****ing Belichick. This team wins because it has good players, and if you stick a Lou Pinella type at the helm, it wins even more. They may be a winning team, but they're not playing up to potential. That's the manager's fault.