MetfanBren

No it isn't. The only place Howe ever won anything was in Oakland, where he had the big three and Saint Rick. What kind of staff has Willie ever had that even compares to that? Howe was given young studs that came up through the farm, whereas Willie's been given a bunch of reclamation projects...

Christ, they won 97 games last year with Trachsel as the #3 starter most of the season, and an assortment of other garbage filling out the rotation behind him. That's pretty impressive, unless you really believe that Geremi Gonzales, Jose Lima, Alay Soler, and Dave Williams were the reason why they won last year...

MajorRanger35

Nobody said "no bearing". You know exactly what I mean.

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My bone bruise is only at 79.52%.

15 Day DL Alou

Well for starters Howe did not manage in 2002, and as much as I liked Bobby Valentine, his ability to get star players to go all out for him left something to be desired.

Do I think Howe turns the 2006 team into a loser? I certainly do NOT think that he gets them anything but swept in the NLDS with two of his top post season starters down and the other being a total farce. Do you really think that Oliver Perez or John Maine would have responded to Young Frankenstien?

It is not a hell of a lot closer than it seems, go look at Howe's deft managing of the A's in the post season, a real Patton.

This isn't football, the players for the most part determine the outcome, but Willie's in game managing is the problem.

So in summary, it is pure luck that Randolph has had the Mets in first place for a longer duration than at any point in team history.

MajorRanger35

1. Reyes
2. Lo Duca
3. Beltran
4. Delgado
5. Wright
6. Green
7. Valentin
8. Chavez

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My bone bruise is only at 79.52%.

15 Day DL Alou

Right exactly what you mean is...it only has a bearing on the things YOU dislike about the way one guy manages.

MajorRanger35

Again, at no point did I say that Howe was anything sort of a terrible, terrible manager. I just don't think Randolph is much better. It's also a little insulting to Maine and Perez that you think Randolph was the key to their success. They manned up. That has nothing to do with who's sitting in the dugout.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I think even Howe manages the Mets past the Dodgers last year. The Mets were just too good.

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My bone bruise is only at 79.52%.

15 Day DL Alou

So it would stand to reason with 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 performing below their standards of last year, it is how did you say it "players determine the outcome of the game"

not to mention 7 & 8 not being present.

Green Must Go

I'm confused - I thought you like Willie.

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Wilpon is like the Pharoah in the book of Exodus. And God keeps sending plagues upon the Mets fans. This year is either frogs or locusts.

MajorRanger35

Again, that's not what I said. Managers have bearing on the outcome of games. It's just small. A good manager will make, what, a 5 game difference max over the course of the season? My little sister could've managed last years team to the playoffs. They won the division by a ton. That wasn't Randolph's genius, that was a stellar team.

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My bone bruise is only at 79.52%.

15 Day DL Alou

RIGHT...because Randolph's personal challenges to Maine on the mound last year did nothing for him, I suppose it was all just Maine paying lip service when he said so.

And when Randolph did not hesitate to put Perez on the mound and proclaim himself comfortable in game 7 with Perez while doing what everyone had begged for six years, toss Trachsel to the curb, it was all just Perez manning up.

We will have to agree to disagree, Randolph is not starting a new unit for Mensa, but you are an idiot.

MajorRanger35

You were talking about last year. That post was about last year. This year, Willie has a good staff. Maine, El Duque and Perez are among the best top threes in baseball.

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My bone bruise is only at 79.52%.

15 Day DL Alou

sar-CHASM (intended m/s)

MajorRanger35

Who else was going out there? Darren Oliver? Steve Trachsel?

An aside: why do people feel compelled to resort to name-calling when someone won't agree with them? I feel that I've made better points than you, though your points did have merit; yet I never called you an idiot.

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My bone bruise is only at 79.52%.

MetfanBren

Who would have called that a good staff going into the season? It's become a good staff this year, and the # 2-5 guys were crap before they became Mets. They're so talented that none of their teams could fix them...

15 Day DL Alou

No I am talking about his tenure as manager, not last year or this year specifically...this year his offense is struggling.

So last year he was boosted by his offense despite his awful handling of the rotation.

This year he is boosted by his pitching despite his awful handling of the lineup.

Now I think I am straight on this, it is irrelevant that he was in first place each year, a child could have done the same.