HoJo vs. Down

CharlieH · 08-07-2007, 12:44 PM

Think canning Ol' Man Down hasn't made a difference?

From the Paper of Record...

Quote:

Since July 13, when Howard Johnson replaced Rick Down as the hitting coach, the Mets are batting .321 with runners in scoring position, the fifth-best average in baseball through Sunday, as opposed to .250 before. They are also scoring nearly a run more a game, up to 5.3 from 4.5.

Hojo of 1991 · 08-07-2007, 12:53 PM

It's all about patience man.... these guys have looked so much more patient at the plate, its not even funny*. Even on 0-2 counts now, these guys have at least worked the count rather than K on the next pitch like we saw so much before the break.

Green Must Go · 08-07-2007, 01:07 PM

I was hoping that HoJo could turn it around. The team's approach to hitting was abominable in June.

MrHat · 08-07-2007, 01:55 PM

Is it really Hojo or is it the fact that this was a good hitting team last year and now they are just playing catchup?

Believe me I was no fan of Down and I like Hojo much more in his role, but I'd bet this dramatic turn around would have happened if he was still here gnawing on ferns in the clubhouse too.

Rey-YES · 08-07-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHat

Is it really Hojo or is it the fact that this was a good hitting team last year and now they are just playing catchup?

Believe me I was no fan of Down and I like Hojo much more in his role, but I'd bet this dramatic turn around would have happened if he was still here gnawing on ferns in the clubhouse too.

I'm with you. Giving Down the blame for this season while giving him no credit for '06 makes no sense to me.

But so far the change seems to have worked, so I'm not going to argue against success.

MetfanBren · 08-07-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey-YES

I'm with you. Giving Down the blame for this season while giving him no credit for '06 makes no sense to me.

But so far the change seems to have worked, so I'm not going to argue against success.

Unless you subscribe to theory that his methods had become stale and the players were blocking him out, which was what most people were saying...

Hojo of 1991 · 08-07-2007, 02:40 PM

Besides the fact that his "aggressive approach" was in place since 05, and bit us in the ass many many times. In 06, the talent pretty much made it a non-issue, but its not like this came out of nowhere. First-pitch pop outs were the norm in 05 too.

METSSC · 08-07-2007, 02:46 PM

I bet the 2 guys with the highest avg WRISP are Gotay and Milledge and they really werent playing when Down was here. I'm not ready to put Hojo on a pedestal.

freakzilla11 · 08-07-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by METSSC

I bet the 2 guys with the highest avg WRISP are Gotay and Milledge and they really werent playing when Down was here. I'm not ready to put Hojo on a pedestal.

Wright is one of them.

MrHat · 08-07-2007, 03:33 PM

Well who were the culprits in the first 1/2?

Delgado, LoDuca, and Beltran who after being in the league as long as they have I doubt any hitting coach is going to play much of a role in their approach. Whether they were blocking him out or not. They are veterans with track records.

Green seems to suck as much, if not more now than in the first 2-3 months.

Reyes was hitting very well WRISP all year until Hojo took over actually....

So that really leaves Wright...which I can see having some impact because of how close he is with Hojo.

But as SC said Milledge and Gotay have been amazing WRISP and they werent playing much/at all when Down was here. Castro is also getting more playing time now...

Then toss in that Alou came back which might be the biggest of all the changes. Dont forget the Mets were leading the NL in runs scored when he went down.....He comes back and the Mets offense is suddenly clicking again....

Again, I am not defending Down...I never liked the guy, but at the same time I'm not going to say him leaving is the reason they have begun to turn it around either.

No.1 · 08-07-2007, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetfanBren

Unless you subscribe to theory that his methods had become stale and the players were blocking him out, which was what most people were saying...

Whatca talking about...everything's fine. Swing away!

Rey-YES · 08-07-2007, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetfanBren

Unless you subscribe to theory that his methods had become stale and the players were blocking him out, which was what most people were saying...

Who are these "most people"---Players? Media? Fans? MOFO?

Willie sure wasn't one of them, and I haven't heard anything about players saying they were glad to see him go.

graves9 · 08-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey-YES

Who are these "most people"---Players? Media? Fans? MOFO?

I haven't heard anything about players saying they were glad to see him go.

Yeah because players usually mention how happy they are when a coach or even a manager is fired.

Green Must Go · 08-07-2007, 05:59 PM

Regardless of whether Downs should get credit in 2006, the fact is that the Mets offense sucked rocks after the first month of the 2007 season. And just like any coach/manager, you are judged on how you correct the problem. Despite whatever Down was doing, the problem was not corrected and was let go. That is no surprise to me nor should he have expected anything different.

MetfanBren · 08-07-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rey-YES

Who are these "most people"---Players? Media? Fans? MOFO?

Willie sure wasn't one of them, and I haven't heard anything about players saying they were glad to see him go.

The guy might as well be Willie's dad. You'd really expect him to say anything that isn't positive about him? This is a coach he rescued from the depths of the Yankee system, where he was manning the token position of "roving hitting instructor." He had some pretty good veteran lineups that underachieved in the Bronx as well. Seriously, we all felt bad for Art Howe because he was a nice guy, but I don't see anyone clamoring for his return...

The best anyone can offer in his defense is that it's not the hitting coaches fault, which I guess would apply to every single one of them who's ever walked the face of the earth. If the position carried no responsibility teams would get rid of it, but I've yet to see any of them do so...

08-07-2007, 12:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
Hojo of 1991 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,358	It's all about patience man.... these guys have looked so much more patient at the plate, its not even funny. Even on 0-2 counts now, these guys have at least worked the count rather than K on the next pitch like we saw so much before the break. Last edited by Hojo of 1991 : 08-07-2007 at 02:06 PM.*

08-07-2007, 01:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
Green Must Go Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Obama has his eye on your wallet Posts: 11,993	I was hoping that HoJo could turn it around. The team's approach to hitting was abominable in June. __________________ Obama's least favorite scripture: Even while we were with you, you gave you this rule: "Whoever does not work should not eat." - 2 Thes 3:10

08-07-2007, 02:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
METSSC Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 8,643	I bet the 2 guys with the highest avg WRISP are Gotay and Milledge and they really werent playing when Down was here. I'm not ready to put Hojo on a pedestal. __________________ GET THE PIECE OF CRAP McGimpy OFF MY TEAM NOW!!!!! The McGimpy does most things upside down: eats, sleeps (an average of 23 hours per day), mates, and gives birth. Because of the McGimpy's upside down life, many of the McGimpy's internal organs (liver, stomach, spleen, pancreas) are in different positions from other mammals. McGimpy sometimes lets out a cry or hissing sound. During the rare times the McGimpy goes down to the ground (such as to change trees for food), it moves very slowly.

08-07-2007, 05:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
Green Must Go Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Obama has his eye on your wallet Posts: 11,993	Regardless of whether Downs should get credit in 2006, the fact is that the Mets offense sucked rocks after the first month of the 2007 season. And just like any coach/manager, you are judged on how you correct the problem. Despite whatever Down was doing, the problem was not corrected and was let go. That is no surprise to me nor should he have expected anything different. __________________ Obama's least favorite scripture: Even while we were with you, you gave you this rule: "Whoever does not work should not eat." - 2 Thes 3:10

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Visit Our Sponsors
<script language="JavaScript" src="http://c1.zedo.com/jsc/c1/ff2.js"></script><noscript> <a href="http://xads.zedo.com/ads2/r?n=558;c=461/9;s=334;x=3584;u=j;z=[timestamp]" target="_blank"><img border="0" width="728" height="90" src="http://xads.zedo.com/ads2/x?n=558;c=461/9;s=334;x=3584;u=j;z=[timestamp]" alt="Click here"></a> </noscript>

08-07-2007, 01:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
MrHat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 2,796	Is it really Hojo or is it the fact that this was a good hitting team last year and now they are just playing catchup? Believe me I was no fan of Down and I like Hojo much more in his role, but I'd bet this dramatic turn around would have happened if he was still here gnawing on ferns in the clubhouse too.

08-07-2007, 02:40 PM	#7 (permalink)
Hojo of 1991 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 3,358	Besides the fact that his "aggressive approach" was in place since 05, and bit us in the ass many many times. In 06, the talent pretty much made it a non-issue, but its not like this came out of nowhere. First-pitch pop outs were the norm in 05 too.

08-07-2007, 03:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
MrHat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 2,796	Well who were the culprits in the first 1/2? Delgado, LoDuca, and Beltran who after being in the league as long as they have I doubt any hitting coach is going to play much of a role in their approach. Whether they were blocking him out or not. They are veterans with track records. Green seems to suck as much, if not more now than in the first 2-3 months. Reyes was hitting very well WRISP all year until Hojo took over actually.... So that really leaves Wright...which I can see having some impact because of how close he is with Hojo. But as SC said Milledge and Gotay have been amazing WRISP and they werent playing much/at all when Down was here. Castro is also getting more playing time now... Then toss in that Alou came back which might be the biggest of all the changes. Dont forget the Mets were leading the NL in runs scored when he went down.....He comes back and the Mets offense is suddenly clicking again.... Again, I am not defending Down...I never liked the guy, but at the same time I'm not going to say him leaving is the reason they have begun to turn it around either.

Want fewer adverts? -Join NY Sportsday's Forums