An Excerpt From 9/19/01

[Jersey Shore]

Originally Posted by NeilAllen

There was an awful lot at work in Germany to prepare the ground for Hitler after WWI. The culture of the Wiemar republic itself was a seething hive of rot-gut depravity and ferocious anger. Philosophically speaking, a line of German philosophers notably Hegel (and naturally Marx) advanced the notion of the primacy of the state, and along with turning logic on its head, reversed the Lockean concept that the State derives it's power from the consent of the governed. And while I find many of AJP Taylor's arguments flawed, it's undeniable that xenophobia and racial supremacy had been a long running theme in the German consciousness from Martin Luther to Richard Wagner on down. The economic disaster of WWI and reparations undoubtedly played a significant role, along with the bizarre hyperinflation, but I don't think you boil it down to "poverty" per se, since if the German economy were truly shattered and everyone poor, they wouldn't have been the threat they were.

you don't find too many AJP Taylor references here....his Struggle for the Mastery of Europe...1848 to 1919 and "The Origins of WWII" do present an interesting picture of a century of Europe

[Fonzy13]

Originally Posted by Jersey Shore

you don't find too many AJP Taylor references here....his Struggle for the Mastery of Europe...1848 to 1919 and "The Origins of WWII" do present an interesting picture of a century of Europe

This place never ceases to amaze. I took an entire course on Taylor and his writings. Only on the Mofo.

[Led, the Revenge]

I would call myself an expert on him, but being a bit of a WWII buff I love his take on things. A very controversial historian, but an excellent read and I've often found him willing to criticise all sides and nationalities of the war.

[A$$hole from El Paso]

BECUASE THE DOUCHEBAG WHO WAS PREZ AT THE TIME WAS DERELICT IN HIS DUTIES, TOO.

Amen to that, brother. Everyone seems to forget that little tidbit.

[FrankStylV7]

Originally Posted by A$$hole from El Paso

Amen to that, brother. Everyone seems to forget that little tidbit.

I never did.

Every cut in health care and education has been a consistent reminder.

[alice]

So eh - what ever happened to the short bus anyway? I know - I know - I'm 2 posts short of turning into Steve.

[James D.]

Originally Posted by KingOlerud

These attacks were born out of fanaticism and hate for "non-believers" by people from wealthy and well-to-do families... not "embittered children from poverty" who just need a little hope and change in their life. The terror to come in England was committed by doctors, for crying out loud. He is so far wide of the mark, it's unreal.

Sooo...radical Muslims haven't built large terrorist networks out of the poor, uneducated, and embittered people they've recruited in countries throughout the world? Hmm. Surprising to find that out.

[KingOlerud]

Originally Posted by James D.

Sooo...radical Muslims haven't built large terrorist networks out of the poor, uneducated, and embittered people they've recruited in countries throughout the world? Hmm. Surprising to find that out.

Of course it's surprising. You're an imbecile. Dopes like Obama and you want people to believe that donating money to poor people around the world and "raising them up" is the solution to stopping terrorism.

What stops terrorism a whole lot faster is cutting off the money that funds it. Or do you think roadside IED's and suicide vests filled with ball bearings are free?

[Mule]

Originally Posted by James D.

Sooo...radical Muslims haven't built large terrorist networks out of the poor, uneducated, and embittered people they've recruited in countries throughout the world? Hmm. Surprising to find that out.

It depends on what you're calling a "terrorist". Insurgencies are easy to fuel with a little hate rhetoric and a small wad of cash. International terrorism is a bit harder.

These are guys with language skills, who'd lived abroad from their home nations, generally foreign college educated. They're successful because they know how to make their way through a strange, foreign culture, which isn't a very easy thing.

You can't take Safir off the streets of Baghdad and drop him off at JFK Airport and expect results. He might be great at wiring dud 105mm shells into an IED in the sand but that's because he's in his environment. Take him out of that environment and he's useless.

I've flogged this dead equine until it's pulp, but you need to stop the moneymen and kill the guys with advanced training to make any gains. Guys with real skill sets are not easily replaced in these organizations. Every time we kill someone high up on the foodchain of one of these organizations, it's a big deal.

[Green Must Go]

Originally Posted by Mule

Every time we kill someone high up on the foodchain of one of these organizations, it's a big deal.

Yet when it happens it doesn't get much publicity, and when it is mentioned, the immediate response is "well too bad we still can't get Osama Bin Laden......".

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by Mule

It depends on what you're calling a "terrorist". Insurgencies are easy to fuel with a little hate rhetoric and a small wad of cash. International terrorism is a bit harder.

These are guys with language skills, who'd lived abroad from their home nations, generally foreign college educated. They're successful because they know how to make their way through a strange, foreign culture, which isn't a very easy thing.

You can't take Safir off the streets of Baghdad and drop him off at JFK Airport and expect results. He might be great at wiring dud 105mm shells into an IED in the sand but that's because he's in his environment. Take him out of that environment and he's useless.

I've flogged this dead equine until it's pulp, but you need to stop the moneymen and kill the guys with advanced training to make any gains. Guys with real skill sets are not easily replaced in these organizations. Every time we kill someone high up on the foodchain of one of these organizations, it's a big deal.

That's an excellent point, one that I would bet tons upon tons of people do not realize.

[KingOlerud]

Originally Posted by Mule

It depends on what you're calling a "terrorist". Insurgencies are easy to fuel with a little hate rhetoric and a small wad of cash. International terrorism is a bit harder.

The economics of it is all a smokescreen. Guys like Obama want to make this (as everything) into a class warfare issue, but don't want to broach the subject of the West is Evil education these "embittered kids" are getting in their schools. There's 10 problems you'd talk about eight days after the attacks before even considering the role of money.

Obama's rhetoric is all about making well-meaning people feel bad for the "poor helpless terrorists" (as libs do with criminals), which will only serve to make us submit to them.

[The_Kings_of_Quit]

Originally Posted by Medfordian Slip

We are so ****ed if this guy becomes president.

Yeah, because we are so NOT f*cked now. Can we get over this "we need a cowboy president" sh*t already? Didn't we learn anything the past eight years? Ooh, no more planes into buildings, but we're crumbling from the inside in every other facet. Just as Bin Laden wanted.

[NeilAllen]

Originally Posted by The_Kings_of_Quit

Yeah, because we are so NOT f*cked now. Can we get over this "we need a cowboy president" sh*t already? Didn't we learn anything the past eight years? Ooh, no more planes into buildings, but we're crumbling from the inside in every other facet. Just as Bin Laden wanted.

You think we're f*cked now KoQ? Try on a 35% Capital Gains tax, 2 income families paying 60-70% tax rates, not to mention the advent of incredible new Carbon Emission taxes on corporations (passed on to guess who!) and go see how f*cked we are then. Based on your comments above, I'm wagering you never really lived through the 70's. Well, Obama gets elected? You'll get your chance.


Oh and I love how you can so flippantly dismiss the fact that we haven't had another terrorist attack on our soil in almost 7 years. Like there was anyone back then who thought that was possible.

[No.1]

Originally Posted by NeilAllen

You think we're f*cked now KoQ? Try on a 35% Capital Gains tax, 2 income families paying 60-70% tax rates, not to mention the advent of incredible new Carbon Emission taxes on corporations (passed on to guess who!) and go see how f*cked we are then. Based on your comments above, I'm wagering you never really lived through the 70's. Well, Obama gets elected? You'll get your chance.


Oh and I love how you can so flippantly dismiss the fact that we haven't had another terrorist attack on our soil in almost 7 years. Like there was anyone back then who thought that was possible.

Neither Obama and McCain are impressing anyone with their idea of fixing the cluster**** Bush made. We're heading to the 70s either way.